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  • Waco

    A highly recommended series worth watching:

    For years they claimed the ATF/FBI didn't start the fire that ended the standoff. They lied and this series actually covers that! I couldn't believe it when I heard. Of course they started the fire, to smoke them out obviously, but there are loads of documentaries, produced by PBS and others, which claim the Branch Davidians had started the fire! I'm glad to see a big production actually portray the facts.

    The government, via the ATF and FBI, waged a war against them and prior to then, the Weaver family, which is covered at the start of the series. The series is a very accurate portrayal of the events. It's not often I can say a television production or film production is spot on, but this is spot on.

    Not covered in the series is the fact these incidents inspired Timothy McVeigh to bomb the Oklahoma Federal Murrah building, home to the ATF. No ATF agents were killed in that bombing and that's probably because they possessed foreknowledge of a potential attack, when it would take place they didn't know, but they were trying to setup some clowns to carry out a fake attack, a trap to catch potential bombers by getting them to carry out a fake bombing. The problem was McVeigh sourced real bombing materials and carried it out without the FBI informant! What many people don't know is that Timothy McVeigh also had an accomplice (John Doe #2) the day he carried out the attack and that the official cover story that they had no idea who McVeigh was before is a lie. The truth is, the feds were trying to setup clowns to carry out a fake bombing, instead one of these guys was inspired to carry one out himself.



    I hope the truth is revealed about what these imbeciles at the FBI and ATF were up to. Just like Fast and Furious and the 9/11 attacks. The public needs to know just how badly these agencies have operated, going so far as to even assist or cause these actions, usually as a result of their gross incompetence. And they want more powers, more funding to fail us only the more. They should abolish these agencies and give the states their power back. The federal government should only function as an intermediary to the states and should investigate the state agencies when they cross the line. The federal government should address foreign threats and leave the states to address domestic threats. I hope in my lifetime we see a restoration of state rights so that we don't have all-powerful federal agencies running amok and failing to protect us anyways, competing among themselves to merely seem less incompetent than the next agency, as proven with this spy scandal over the Trump campaign.

  • #2
    I've been watching Mucize Doctor this week.

    It's on SKAI every day expect the weekends at 21:30. It's about Ali, a person suffering from autism, who's trying to be a successful doctor. There are 12 episodes.

    I highly recommend it!


    • #3
      That's a Turkish show!


      • #4
        Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
        That's a Turkish show!
        True, I don't usually like Turkish movies and shows but this one is pretty good.


        • #5
          You're a good man, but Turkey uses these shows to promote soft power. Stop watching them and tell your family and friends they need to do the same. We might be in a shooting war with Turkey in the near future.
          For fifteen whole years, 55 different Turkish series have put the Turkish language in almost every Greek home, with countless hours of screenings that show idea


          • #6
            Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
            You're a good man, but Turkey uses these shows to promote soft power. Stop watching them and tell your family and friends they need to do the same. We might be in a shooting war with Turkey in the near future.
            Oh, come on now, it is just a series, people don't have to think like that all the time. I don't support their corrupt president and their failed attempts to claim out beautiful islands either and I've studied the long history of wars and massacres between our anscestors. But, we also have few things in common with Turkey and personally, if a series is good, I will watch it regardless of the language or the nationality of the actors.

            Thinking that a Turkish series promotes propaganda is a bit far-fetched in my humble opinion.


            • #7
              Just finished watching this mini series. Definitely compelling viewing.

              Why is it always that these cults exist in North America?

              How on earth did they get away with this?


              • #8
                The US allows people to have a lot of freedom. Some people abuse it.

                In this case, the Branch Davidians were sucked into David Koresh's egomania, his cult of personality. He was crazy. I don't think the series fully captured just how bad a man he was, but they wanted to portray Koresh in a way that audiences could grasp how his followers got sucked into his beliefs. The series shows how he was able to develop his cult of personality. People really believed him because what we see in the series is what the Branch Davidians saw.


                • #9
                  I agree Koresh was a maniac.

                  However. The US allows people to have no more freedom than most other developed European countries/Australia/Canada.

                  For whatever reason, these things seem to happen more in the US than other countries.


                  • #10
                    You get more people like David Koresh in the US than elsewhere, yes, but these abuses happen everywhere.

                    Look at the Catholic Church. Look at the widespread sexual abuse of children, the cult of personalities around priests who for years got away with sex abuse... what's different about that to what Koresh did? That aspect of the abuse and control he had over these people has to do with power and how power corrupts. That's everywhere.

                    But in the US, a man can create his own little kingdom. Every man is a king in his own castle. This goes back to old English law, as far back as the Manga Carta, except Americans took that concept further than the English who remained loyal subjects to the King. Most Europeans, Canadians, these people in almost every case are subjects to a king or queen.

                    It's a cultural mindset. Everywhere else, they have a king. Everywhere else, the mindset is more collectivist.

                    In the US, the notion of individuality is much stronger concept: all individuals can live like kings. And that's the difference. That's why in America you also get the David Koreshs and not just the priests and bishops of the Catholic Church abusing their parishes. But for every David Koresh, there are other people who use that freedom for extraordinary good and that's why the US leads the world in innovation and creativity. That's why the US is so wealthy and powerful.


                    • #11
                      I think there are a lot of leaps in that post, some not really true.

                      -I'm not religious. I do accept your point about the catholic church. I find it slightly ironic that people with so much freedom tie themselves to religion. It's a highly unusual paradox.

                      -The monarchy really has no function in Europe but symbolism. They don't actually have the impact that you are suggesting. I assure nobody runs around pretending they are owned by a monarchy.
                      All Europeans can live like kings too. In fact in Europe if you get sick you get paid sick leave, you also get more than two weeks of holiday. Other than the small percentage of people who own businesses/don't work anyone else nobody in the US lives like a king. I'd argue actually the individualism in Europe is far more advanced than it is in the US.

                      -America is not the most innovative country. It doesn't lead in innovation. Here's a couple of lists:


                      It's so wealthy largely because its the largest advanced economy in the world. The average American is poorer in wealth terms compared to similarly advanced countries.



                      • #12
                        You just want to debate me about how Sweden is great and America is bad. You want to tell me collectivism is great and America is bad for her freedoms on things like guns. Ok then, I'll take your bait.

                        I never said that Europeans are owned by the monarchy. I said Americans take the concept of a man being the king of his own castle FURTHER than you Swedes do. And the fact is you are a subject to the king. Americans are not subjects. Their government is a subject to them.

                        Furthermore, as far as innovation is concerned, the only reason you and I even get to speak to each other is because the internet was invented by the US.

                        Anything you can think of, from the light bulb, to cars, to planes, to televisions, to the toothbrush (unless you like brushing with boar hairs), was invented by Americans. The Chinese food people like? It's actually American-Chinese food, unless you like eating bat soup (or what they call, real Chinese food).

                        All the great inventions were made affordable to everyday people by American entrepreneurs and they showed the rest of the world how to do it.

                        If it wasn't for the US, South Korea would be a Japanese brothel and Kim Jung-Un would be their leader. Don't tell me how South Korea and Germany, where they only know how to put debt on countries like Greece to force Greeks to buy Turkish-made crap sold by Germany, are more innovative than the US.


                        • #13
                          I'm not Swedish. I live here for work.

                          I actually want to debate American vs European culture. Sure American culture has its benefits, so does European culture. Growing up in Australia meant I lived in a country that was half way between both. I have visited the US a lot, especially with a lot of family in NY. I like the US, that doesn't mean we can't debate the culture.
                          I really don't care for the Swedish culture. But no one here is actually subject to the monarchy in real terms. If you go out in the city sometimes you will see the Swedish king queuing to buy something in a department store...

                          Yes the internet is indeed important indeed in context, but countless others. But in fact, not even that is correct. We are talking on the world wide web. That was a British invention.

                          I'm sorry the rest is just plain odd. It would be like me saying well if it wasn't for Europeans colonising America, the Americans wouldn't have been able to do any of that. It doesn't make sense for me to say that in the context of the discussion.

                          You seem to have put me in a box. Don't stereotype life is a lot more nuanced than that. Who said anything about gun rights? People have guns here, it is not a big deal. You just need obtain a licence, same as Australia. Growing up all the men in most Greek families in Aus have gun licences and guns.

                          I think the difference is that in Europe, people from my experience view freedom differently. People would rather fight for having employment rights and health care instead of the right to have a gun without obtaining a licence. It ultimately comes down to priorities for each nation. But yes point understood we are subject to a monarchy in Aus/Sweden. In the end despite the tyranny of having a monarchy in most freedom rankings Aus/Sweden countries rank ahead of the US.


                          • #14
                            To be technical, the world wide web (the way the internet interfaces) was invented by a Brit in Switzerland, but it was still America that invented the internet, that came up with and built the infrastructure needed for it. Without this, there wouldn't have even have been a need for the WWW. The internet itself was invented by America.

                            Most of the world's economy is built around American invention and innovation. It's why America is so powerful and so wealthy.

                            Priorities are different. America has the world's biggest and most powerful military. That military helped to invent the internet. You can't have that without a people who like guns and who believe they should be able to own and use guns like AR-15s that are now banned in New Zealand and Canada.


                            • #15
                              I have the greatest of respect for the American military (I worked and sometimes still ad hoc work for a DoD contractor).

                              I don't dispute the importance of the American economy, but I think you're slightly overplaying it. For all the innovation I hope one day the US will phase out "checks" for electronic bank payments.

                              Of course the US has the most powerful military, and long may it remain. I don't see what gun rights have with a military though. There are plenty of powerful militaries with a different attitude to guns.....