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  • Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. There's nothing to suggest Anastasiadis or Grammenos are those kinds of people.
    Maybe the first, but the second? I wouldn't feel safe buying a tourist T-shirt off him.

    Comment


    • Don Giovanni
      Don Giovanni commented
      Editing a comment
      Let's wait and see with Grammenos. The corruption of the past chairmen has been exposed and rooted out to a great extent.

  • I just had a discussion with someone discussing football and transfers. It came to mind that in order for a team to be successful they must have effective wingers. Manchester United had Ronaldo and Giggs, Tottenham had Lennon and Bale and most recently Manchester City have Sterling and B.Silva.

    Ive always felt that you need effective wingers who can create and score goals for the team. Our keeper and defence are great. We’ve got heaps of depth there. The FB position needs work. We have lots of 6s but none can do more from there. We truly lack a quality 8. If we could produce a quality player to emerge there then one part of the problem would be fixed. We’ve got some depth for the time being at CAM with Fortounis leading the ranks with Pelkas, Mantalos, Kolovos and possibly Bouzoukis in the future.

    Upfront we seem to be not at a good level yet. Mitroglou is off and on and Koulouris just made a big move and hopefully gets something out of it. Durmisaj is young but can be something more of given the chance. Anyone else is not ready and hasn’t emerged.

    Outwide I believe we have a lot of depth here that we fail to use. Lamprou, Gianniotas, Vrousai, Limnios, Chatzigiovannis, Masouras, Manthatis and even Fetfatzidis, If he is even looked at. There’s no excuse in my opinion to not play any of these players. Instead we play CAMs, CMs and FBs in this position and disregarding our actual wide players.

    The indistinguishable thing that some have is that they are your young. To me, if your good enough your old enough. I don’t understand why we don’t try these players in a formation that needs it. A formation that needs these type of players. I believe we should try these wingers and see how the team performs. If dosent look different then go back to what we have been doing but I believe our performance and feel of the team would be different with actual wingers. Also Fortounis needs support. If he has proper wingers to play he would benefit much more and so would the team. I remember Donis on his debut against Bosnia and he played LW. When he got the ball we looked more dangerous, professional and looked cohesive. All because an actual winger played and Donis had something to prove. I would also use Donis upfront.

    Bottom line is we must use our players correctly in positions they know how to play, even if it means Pelkas and Mantalos sit out. Bring in Lamprou and Gianniotas and we all see a better and different team. Gianniotas has proven to be effective for Greece and if Lamprou can emulate his club form to Greece then we have something great happening. I believe Masouras and Kolovos can be useful for this team but they seem to be more effective off the bench for now. Our team dosent seem brave enough to give this a chance hence why we see players out of position.

    I believe if we want to be successful in a system like 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 then we need to play proper wingers and players in there correct positions. Also in my opinion if we can produce a strong 8 who can do nearly about everything well with quality then this team can start being competitive with teams same level and higher than us.


    Comment


    • We really need guys competing at the UCL level or in a top five league. Maybe at very competitive clubs like Ajax or Benfica, but really it's because those teams competitive at the UCL level.

      Just as an example, Zagorakis was a star at Euro 2004. He had played in the EPL for Leicester, but left having little to show for it. Still that experience meant a lot. He returned to Greece, but at least he was playing UCL football for AEK and even helped earn two draws against Real Madrid's Galaticos (despite losing Zidane for one of the goals). That experienced helped him to raise his game and it's why he starred for Greece at Euro 2004. For us to produce a team that is good enough to play against Italy and maybe earn a result, that's the caliber of player we need at a minimum.

      Even the standards of the Europa League arguably are not good enough. It's not like it was in the 80s and 90s when Maradona and Ronaldo played at clubs that finished second in Italy and weren't allowed to enter into the UCL unless they were league champions. The Europa League is good, but still not a high enough standard for Greece to produce a competitive enough team.

      As for the other names you mentioned, Lamprou is back at PAOK this upcoming season. I don't think he's going to be starting ahead of Stoch. He's also competing with Biseswar and Warda for a place. He might very well go back on loan, hopefully to Germany which is step up from the Netherlands.

      With Jaba on the other wing, neither will Limnios start. Due to a lack of RW options, I don't think he will be allowed to go on loan, but he needs game time. Hopefully PAOK give him chances and maybe next season he can make a loan move abroad because it's needed for his development. Players cannot develop fully in Greece. That standards aren't good enough.

      Gianniotas plays for Apollon Limassol. He can't play for Greece if he continues at that level. It's too low.

      Masouras can hopefully learn from Valbuena and become a more determined type of player like Giannakopoulos was. He doesn't have enough natural talent to succeed any other way. And even then, he has to aim for a move to the EPL or Bundesliga, probably a midtable side. If he spends his career in Greece, he's never going to be good enough. When Greece won Euro 2004 our forwards played abroad; Charisteas was at Werder Bremen, Giannakopoulos at Bolton, Karagounis an Inter bench player, Vryzas at Perugia, and Demis Nikolaidis at Atletico Madrid. These guys played a lot of minutes at Euro 2004. Dimitris Papadopoulos was a young Panathinaikos gun who mostly rode the bench for Greece at Euro 2004 and never made the grade in the end.

      We are producing others who are playing abroad in a top league, like Koulouris is now doing after his move to Toulouse. So Masouras will need to move abroad to a similar standard. The same goes for Durmishaj, etc.

      Others like Vrousaj need to continue at the Greece national youth level. They can't play for Greece until they progress through the proper levels or unless they're an exceptional natural talent.

      Comment


      • I understand where your coming from and that plays a huge role. I’m just basing it off on what we have at the moment and the abilities of our players. Samaris for example has been at Benfica for 4 years and has played many champions league games. As soon as he puts on the Greece jersey he is a non existent. Sokratis and Manolas played many UCL games and are rightfully our best and most reliable players.

        We have to deal with what we have at the moment. We can’t even do that right. I can almost guarantee you that playing Gianniotas and Lamprou outwide would be more beneficial than playing Mantalos and Pelkas there. We need natural wingers. Samaras started off as a winger then became striker. Salpingidis was outwide because of his pace and work ethic. Both weren’t that great technically on the ball but still somehow got Greece winning games. Kolovos, Masouras, Mantalos and Pelkas haven’t got the pace and strength to be effective there. Pelkas is the fastest of the lot but struggles still.

        Its mind boggling as to why Gianniotas is playing in Cyprus when does well when playing for Greece. The Netherlands friendly is an example. A player shouldn’t be judged by the league he plays in. He should be judged on what he gives the team and only the smartest know. Yes Gianniotas plays for Limassol, it dosent mean he can’t be effective for Greece. Kolovos proved it when he scored the goal against Bosnia. Also Gianniotas was playing Apoel and a 2nd division Spanish team his whole career. Also Aris. He is a talented winger.

        Lamprou is showing more and more promise by the year. Hopefully he has big year coming up. He is technically very good, fast and can create. Also he finishes off one on ones against the keeper. I find him more talented than Limnios.

        We need to find the right players and right chemistry on the field. I know this will fall on deaf ears or (blind eyes in this case) but this what Greece needs to do. Also players like Pelkas, Kourbelis, Mantalos, Masouras and others need a season or 2 abroad as you won’t fully develop in Greece just like you said Don. Regarding UCL matches or Europa, we can’t depend on that as Samaris hasn’t helped us. Manolas and Sokratis can only do so much and they will have an off game here or there. We need to find out what players mix well together.

        For eg. Our natural wide players will benefit if Tachtsidis is played in midfield. Or Fortounis works well with Koutris. Or Kourbelis should be next to Zeca because they’ve know and played together before. These are just examples of how we can find out and create a cohesive and successful team.

        Also most of our starting players in the 2004 squad were playing abroad. Only a couple were from the Greek league. Now most of our team consists of players in the Greek league and lower (Cyprus). Goes to show you that this could be also the reason of our downfall.
        Last edited by Dean97; 07-04-2019, 11:25 AM.

        Comment


        • Dean, Samaras was a decently gifted technical player, he learned his football in Holland and carried the Ethniki with Karagouni from 2007-2014 IMO. Look at most of our key success at our peak and most of it is created by Samaras out wide.

          Since then the silly coaches are playing the same failed system for 5 fucken years with slow central players out wide over and over again

          Comment


          • Don Giovanni
            Don Giovanni commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes, he did prove the difference in key games; Turkey, Ukraine, Ivory Coast... to name a few big ones. Even against Germany and Argentina, he showed the sort of quality that kept us in those contests.

        • Originally posted by Amorgos View Post
          Dean, Samaras was a decently gifted technical player, he learned his football in Holland and carried the Ethniki with Karagouni from 2007-2014 IMO. Look at most of our key success at our peak and most of it is created by Samaras out wide.

          Since then the silly coaches are playing the same failed system for 5 fucken years with slow central players out wide over and over again
          That’s true they did carry Greece but at times Samaras was very frustrating to watch and could have done better in my opinion. He did along with Karagounis carry the team and stepped up when needed. Same goes for Salpingidis and his work rate.

          The slow CMs is killing us. If we play players who play there then we can somehow perform better and get better results in my opinion.

          Comment


          • Fortounis out for 6 months after rupturing his anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee vs Hamburg in friendly yesterday!!

            Most obvious replacement as a pure 10 is Fetfatzidis.

            Comment


            • Horrible news... as usual the worst scenario that can happen, has happened... our chances of beating Finland just took a big hit.

              I very much doubt Fetfa will be in the squad let alone played in Fortounis’s place. It will be Pelkas or Mantalos and I’m pretty sure Pelkas will get the spot.

              Provided he is supported by actual wingers out wide we may be able to salvage something

              Comment


              • I think Pelkas starts, but he will not play with the same level of individual quality and intelligence. Not anywhere near the same level of technical ability. But he's dogged. He can take set-pieces too. Not better than Fortounis or Ninis, but he's serviceable. The problem with Pelkas is he doesn't look comfortable in a Greece jersey. I hope he doesn't go out there trying to prove something more than he needs to, he should just focus on what he can do and help the team.

                Koulouris could prove the difference against Finland and Liechtenstein, but he's not the answer to our problems in the attack when we go to play Italy and Bosnia. Donis has a great eye for goal and can run with the ball. Hopefully he's available and ready to perform. I see him at least pulling a rabbit out of the hat if we struggle to create chances. Even Koulouris can score unexpected goals from decent range, but he only when the ball falls very fortuitously and the keeper is unsighted.

                I think that's our front three for our upcoming matches. Masouras is really a bench option, which seems to be the case at OSFP now. Anastasiadis has done well to get something out of Kolovos, but I'd put him at best in the same boat as Masouras.

                The other big change needed is a recall of Torosidis and Tachtsidis. It was inexcusable we left the out in the last round of matches.

                Comment


                • As i said in the Oly forums I see it the same way as Reaper. Fetfatzidis should be the obvious replacement but it won’t. Pelkas would have to get the start and I’m fine with it. He is faster and more skilful with the ball in my opinion. He works hard and can be dangerous in and around the box.

                  I was actually hoping that none of our players get injured. That can’t happen especially with our luck. I just want to see a full season with Mavropanos, Kyriakos, Mantalos, Donis, Retsos and so on without injury and playing with form. We could see Greece playing a different formation. Same can be said for Olympiakos.

                  Comment


                  • Fetfa has been a winger for the last 5 years for his clubs He’s not a 10 anymore if he ever was. His problem is that he has a really weak shot so he’s not a threat to score from distance so it’s easy for defenders to play him deep and not worry. That is the problem with every single one of our players. All of them are 1 dimensional and very predictable.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pao4ever View Post
                      Fetfa has been a winger for the last 5 years for his clubs He’s not a 10 anymore if he ever was. His problem is that he has a really weak shot so he’s not a threat to score from distance so it’s easy for defenders to play him deep and not worry. That is the problem with every single one of our players. All of them are 1 dimensional and very predictable.
                      Most of our players can’t control the ball well and our passes aren’t good enough. Fetfa actually excels in these aspects. More so than anyone in Greece or Greek player period. When in great form he can wonders for club and country. He isn’t consistent in scoring but the same can be said for most of our attackers. These type of players are low centre of gravity and can play 10 and on the wing. Fortounis has never really scored from distance. A free kick is different. If we want players that can score from distance then we need to start integrating players like Bouzoukis and Bouchalakis. Midfielders with a great shot.

                      Comment


                      • Fetfazidis was born with unique, freakish qualities which lent him a natural ability few others could match. What he does well is run with the ball and drag players around with mazy dribbles. And when he's confident and in the mood, he's unplayable. The only way the opponent can stop him is with fouls. He also has the ability to play incisive, low driven passes to create chances on goal and he himself can also finish chances when inside or around the penalty area. His technique was off at OSFP in the first half of this past season, but he seems to be regaining his touch and confidence now that he has settled down at Aris.

                        I still consider him more of an impact sub, but he can could be effective in the way Samaras was. Both he and Fetfatzidis have similar styles of play; however, Samaras relied on his large frame to shield the ball, whereas Fetfatzidis relies on his low center of gravity to protect the ball from challenges. But both have a sort of wrecking ball quality to their play.

                        If he ever does regain any of the form we witnessed in early 2015, then Fetfatzidis can have 3-4 players challenging him and he can be nearly impossible to dispossess unless they foul him. He's also one of the few current generation of Greek players (the only other being Ninis) who can score the kind of individual goal Fortounis had scored against Armenia. The only other player who might fit into that conversation is Tachtsidis.

                        Comment


                        • Speaking if Tachtsidis, it looks like he is in good shape. Better than I’ve ever seen him. It also looks like he is staying with Leece. Which is a good thing.

                          You are spot on again Don. If Fetfatzidis regains his confidence he would put everyone on notice. It dosent help when Oly fans start burying him because he missed right in front against AEK. Like I said if he gets his confidence back and be fully energetic again then he will put all the people who called up and loved Bakasetas to shame. (Media/Coaches/EPO etc)

                          Comment


                          • Just out of interest, this injury is the same one Mantalos got and he was never the same player after.

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