Suggested Call Ups/Starting 11

[Reaper]

I don’t know how Giannis Masouras lost his way as he has only played 2 matches for Panionios this season.

Injured. Wasn't even the squad.

[Dean97]

Injured. Wasn't even the squad.

Ok makes sense.

[Don Giovanni]

Tsimikas, I'm told, had an exceptional performance against Bayern, despite the 3-2 defeat. It will be interesting to see what we do now, but my guess is Stafylidis will play in the midfield moving forward.

[Dean97]

Tsimikas, I'm told, had an exceptional performance against Bayern, despite the 3-2 defeat. It will be interesting to see what we do now, but my guess is Stafylidis will play in the midfield moving forward.

In my opinion Tsimikas has never had a bad game for the NT. The 2 or 3 times he has played he has been one of our best. I don’t mind Stafylidis as a bench option.

[Reaper]

Tsimikas I think earned a spot in the bundesliga last night. Sensational.

[Dean97]

Tsimikas I think earned a spot in the bundesliga last night. Sensational.

I think Olympiakos have done a good job in improving some Greek players. Look when Fortounis came, he became a better player. Even Koutris. Now Masouras and Tsimikas have become better footballers overtime. Also you can add Bouchalakis. The only player that didn’t improve or step up is Tachtsidis. That was a complicated situation.

[ThrylosG7]

I think Olympiakos have done a good job in improving some Greek players. Look when Fortounis came, he became a better player. Even Koutris. Now Masouras and Tsimikas have become better footballers overtime. Also you can add Bouchalakis. The only player that didn’t improve or step up is Tachtsidis. That was a complicated situation.

Well Tacchtsidis is 28 - he came to Oly at 26-27 after spending 8 or 9 years in Italy - which means you expect to get a player who is the finished product and about to enter his prime. Tachtsidis has turned out to be a journeyman and unable to settle anywhere

[Don Giovanni]

I like Tachtsidis, but I find him making the same silly mistakes we saw Bouchalakis make against Red Star and Italy. Identical mistakes. He's very experienced and the quality of his passes are exceptional, better than Fortounis because he has greater range, but he's slow to the point that he's cumbersome and his style of play is such that he has to be accommodated for. To be accommodated like that requires you perform and with him there is a question of consistency.

Tachtsidis has to show his quality otherwise he'll go back down to Series B with Lecce next season. He has to play to impress and at Lecce it's not going to get any better for him than what Liverani is doing for him. He's lucky to have him as a coach. The same is true of Bouchalakis. If he remains timid, allows himself to make those mistakes where he's easily beaten in the air or conceding dumb penalties, then even at Olympiacos he won't last and Androutsos or some other player will replace him soon enough.

Greece desperately needs a CM who can play passes with real range, otherwise it will lead to Fortounis dropping too far back to collect the ball and play it out himself. And frankly, his range isn't great. We can't rely on central defenders and defensive midfielders to do that job. We need a quality midfielder who can orchestrate from the middle and really pull strings. This has been a big problem for Greece and even with the changes Van't Schip has made, it won't be enough without this kind of player.

[Amorgos]

Tsimikas, I'm told, had an exceptional performance against Bayern, despite the 3-2 defeat. It will be interesting to see what we do now, but my guess is Stafylidis will play in the midfield moving forward.

He’s been great this season, very impressed.

I hope not re Stafylidis... he’s not that good... I’m sensing the new Tziolis

As for Tachtsidis... sadly I realized a while back, despite his strengths, his weaknesses out do him

[Reaper]

I like Tachtsidis, but I find him making the same silly mistakes we saw Bouchalakis make against Red Star and Italy. Identical mistakes.

I think this is to do with concentration and intelligence. He does not want to improve as a player. Everything is about the money. If he was serious he would study tapes and sort this out. At Olympiacos Tachtsidis gave the ball away a lot - needlessly. He has never studied the game properly and his role within it. Enough talent to half ass it and make a career, but not enough upstairs to become something more.

The one thing I miss about Tsiartas - you could tell as clear as day he was always working out how he could change a game. A rare quality. Even Fetfa who I like - you can tell he does not study the art of football - just uses his raw talent.

Ibagaza was another who was always trying to work out how he could conduct the game and what he could do to make the team succeed. Nilmar another. Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Xavi, etc.. always interested in the actual game - they were all thinking and playing.

Most Greek players - I think they just go with the river.

I will make everyone laugh now. Mendrinos was a thinker - he could work out how to be effective but he had no interest in going abroad or taking what he had further. He would wait for the foul - knew it was coming miles off. If he could play the ball early he would consider it and do it. Also had excellent close control. Another player who had massive ability in this respect but never made it was OFI's old captain Makris. Remember watching him - bossed the midfield, knew when to attack and even score - when to run - how to run without losing the ball. He would usually make the correct pass 99% of the time. Also a natural leader on the pitch.. Zikos was another - you could tell he was thinking. It is not really anyone's fault these players never made it at NT level. We needed to produce around 10 for one to make it at NT level. Also these players besides Zikos and Tsiartas feared going abroad which stunted them.

[Dean97]

I think we rely on Bouchalakis to do the thinking and executing. I don’t think he is good enough. He might be talented but only slightly. He isn’t a quick thinker. He isn’t as dominant as Guilherme or Camara is in midfield. We’ve always known that we need an 8 who could boss the midfield and with intelligence. It’s hard to produce a player like that in my opinion especially in Greece. All those names mentioned never took there career serious enough to progress and become stars.

Bouchalakis and Tachtsidis are very similar but Bouchalakis seems to be more hardworking and willing to progress. Tachtsidis has raw talent where Bouchalakis has trained harder to be where is at I think. I remember Reaper used to say how Ninis should’ve been an 8 like Xavi. I agree with that but his career has taken a similar path to Katidis.

Katidis reminded me of a classic all round midfielder who could do it all. Had leadership and grit. In my opinion it was unfair of the EPO to ban him from the NT for life. His career took a massive dive after that. Psychologically he was done. Last few years he has been playing 2nd and 3rd divisions. Real shame.

We don’t have that type of player at the moment who is perfect for that role we are describing. Tachtsidis has too many limitations and is inconsistent. Bouchalakis isn’t as talented as we think. But is the best option we have in this department in my opinion. Karagounis in his later years played more like a deep lying 8 who played long passes and tried to change the game.

The best bet now is too have energetic midfielders like Kourbelis and Galanopoulos who can cover a lot of ground and also play the ball forward as much as possible. Bouchalakis can come in as a game changer if needed. Zeca is not a game changer but reliable in defending and running. Vasiliadis I think is a player we should look out for. Hopefully he gets his citizenship and becomes part of the NT.

[ThrylosG7]

I think this is to do with concentration and intelligence. He does not want to improve as a player. Everything is about the money. If he was serious he would study tapes and sort this out. At Olympiacos Tachtsidis gave the ball away a lot - needlessly. He has never studied the game properly and his role within it. Enough talent to half ass it and make a career, but not enough upstairs to become something more.

The one thing I miss about Tsiartas - you could tell as clear as day he was always working out how he could change a game. A rare quality. Even Fetfa who I like - you can tell he does not study the art of football - just uses his raw talent.

Ibagaza was another who was always trying to work out how he could conduct the game and what he could do to make the team succeed. Nilmar another. Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Xavi, etc.. always interested in the actual game - they were all thinking and playing.

Most Greek players - I think they just go with the river.

I will make everyone laugh now. Mendrinos was a thinker - he could work out how to be effective but he had no interest in going abroad or taking what he had further. He would wait for the foul - knew it was coming miles off. If he could play the ball early he would consider it and do it. Also had excellent close control. Another player who had massive ability in this respect but never made it was OFI's old captain Makris. Remember watching him - bossed the midfield, knew when to attack and even score - when to run - how to run without losing the ball. He would usually make the correct pass 99% of the time. Also a natural leader on the pitch.. Zikos was another - you could tell he was thinking. It is not really anyone's fault these players never made it at NT level. We needed to produce around 10 for one to make it at NT level. Also these players besides Zikos and Tsiartas feared going abroad which stunted them.

I agree with your post especially the thinking part of the game and how few Greeks study the game...I did laugh when you mentioned Mendrinos - he had the physique to be a dominant midfielder - and when you mentioned Mendrinos again my mind instantly went to the player everyone thought would become the player we hoped Mendrinos would be and that was Giannis Papadopoulos - who had one great season with Iraklis - and about 2-3 games with us then nothing...another player who became a journeyman jumping from club to club. The guy is still only 30 and playing in the backwaters of 2nd Division Cyprus .

Its interesting now to see how much Basinas used to offer in terms of defensive midfield duties and being able to play good intelligent passes with a good engine.

Im not a fan of selecting journeymen for the NT unless they offer something exceptional to the team or always perform when selected there is something fundamentally wrong when a player as young as Tachtsidis has moved around so much and hasnt been able to settle anywhere - not it seems has anyone bothered to fight hard to keep him.

[Don Giovanni]

With respect to Bouchalakis, he has to take command. Against Tottenham, for example, when they scored their first goal off the penalty, Guilherme could have been positioned better to close the passing lane that allowed Tottenham to play the ball into the penalty area. The fault was with Bouchalakis, who didn't tell Guilherme to move more to his left.

Conversely, and we would never have seen this from Tziolis, he pressed high and won possession in the lead up to the penalty Valbuena had won. His best moments are those 1v1 situations when he breaks up the play. It's hard for me to pick out one pass he made or play he started that makes much of a difference, but he does have his moments. Much of that responsibility falls on Valbuena to carry Olympiacos, or as we saw against Bosnia, Fortounis, which was why Bouchalakis was subbed off.

We do need a player of this kind in the team because in the middle we lack quality in possession of the ball, especially in terms of spreading the ball far and wide, and we tend to defend all over the place or too deep without someone on the pitch bossing players around. Granted, in the past we were made to play too deep because Katsouranis and Tziolis couldn't be bothered to play higher.

[Dean97]

With respect to Bouchalakis, he has to take command. Against Tottenham, for example, when they scored their first goal off the penalty, Guilherme could have been positioned better to close the passing lane that allowed Tottenham to play the ball into the penalty area. The fault was with Bouchalakis, who didn't tell Guilherme to move more to his left.

Conversely, and we would never have seen this from Tziolis, he pressed high and won possession in the lead up to the penalty Valbuena had won. His best moments are those 1v1 situations when he breaks up the play. It's hard for me to pick out one pass he made or play he started that makes much of a difference, but he does have his moments. Much of that responsibility falls on Valbuena to carry Olympiacos, or as we saw against Bosnia, Fortounis, which was why Bouchalakis was subbed off.

We do need a player of this kind in the team because in the middle we lack quality in possession of the ball, especially in terms of spreading the ball far and wide, and we tend to defend all over the place or too deep without someone on the pitch bossing players around. Granted, in the past we were made to play too deep because Katsouranis and Tziolis couldn't be bothered to play higher.

Great post Don couldn’t agree more. I believe Tziolis, Tachtsidis and Bouchalakis are more or less the same player. We need a difference maker in middle and just like you said boss people around. I think Karagounis did this but not like an expert. Karagounis had to make things happen by himself at times. I do really miss his passion and determination and the drive to make something work.

I didn’t think much of Katsouranis. He did make good clearances and tracked back to save the team. Apart from that he wasn’t really effective. I remember think of better players to play instead like Samaris or Fotakis back then. Samaris has proven to be a failure for the international level. Tachtsidis has too many limitations that outweighs his strengths.

Bouchalakis isnt commanding enough but he does try to take the initiative. More than Katsouranis or Tziolis back then. Now we’ve got Kourbelis and Galanopoulos who like to run and cover ground. Who also aren’t that bad on the ball either. Kourbelis played his best game probably ever against Bosnia.

Maybe Mantalos can be that midfielder we need. If play centrally that is. Even though he did fine on the wing against Bosnia we would get more out of him if he’s on the ball most of the time.

[Don Giovanni]

Katsouranis, I felt, got better technically as time wore on. but physically his age caught up with him. If you look at the goals he scored against Spain, Finland, and Bosnia as well as the assists he made against Latvia, Austria, and Romania, it was clear he had ability. I'll try to post some clips in the future if I still have them. He was very good when he wanted to be, but he got old.

Karagounis too got smarter with age and his physique, as a result of playing in the EPL, was exceptional.

They were good, but they also brought about limitations to our game. We were built around them and once they were out of the picture, we promptly fell apart.