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  • I tend to agree with you Dean, I rate Lamprou higher, than I do Limnios and you are correct, there isn't a Greek or maybe anyone in the superleague that could've pulled that move, aside from Fetfa. Limnios has had a good season with Paok and a good couple of games with the ethniki, but if we're talking talent, I think Lamprou has a higher ceiling. As far as Pelkas goes, I rated the kid as a 17 year old I think, when I first saw him at Paok, but his performances, with the ethniki especially, have been atrocious and that's being kind, Similar player to Fortounis and Chatsiovannis, at his best, the ball follows him around and he makes everyone around him better and causes headaches for opposing defenses, but all to often, especially with the ethniki, he disappears from games and is ineffectual. Very frustrating player

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    • It's no small feat to turn to two defenders and then to finish at pace from an acute angle. It's clear Lamprou has quality, but he has to make a better case for himself at PAOK to start. Right now it's Limnios who starts and looks destined to make the leap abroad. I feel Pelkas missed his chance mainly because PAOK has failed to qualify for the group stages of the UCL.

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      • Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
        It's no small feat to turn to two defenders and then to finish at pace from an acute angle. It's clear Lamprou has quality, but he has to make a better case for himself at PAOK to start. Right now it's Limnios who starts and looks destined to make the leap abroad. I feel Pelkas missed his chance mainly because PAOK has failed to qualify for the group stages of the UCL.
        I feel like if PAOK put more trust in Lamprou like they do with Limnios then we will see the same thing happen if not better with Lamprou. Lamprou is a technical player, these types of players have been overlooked in Greek football over the years for more solid and physically strong players. Technique should be looked at first in my opinion. Football is a very technical sport. Not everyone is made for it. You either have it or you don’t.

        Lamprou had a great season abroad in the Netherlands. I just don’t t see how PAOK don’t see something in this guy. He is a player who improves game by game. He has skill, he is fast and can finish. Physically he is very good. But maybe the defensive side of his game is what probably lets him down. If I was the Greece coach, I would give opportunities to the likes of Lamprou, Chatzigiovannis, Bouzoukis and so on...

        But I see why Mantalos and Limnios play. Which I don’t have a problem with at all. They come back and defend regularly. And that’s what it’s about. It’s about the team not the individual player. Every player must work hard for the team in all aspects. Maybe Lamprou needs to track back more to prove his worth to the team because in attack he is very good.

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        • With Limnios there's fewer tricks and more hustle. He's not trying to pretend to be a player he's not. Same goes with Mantalos. They're not the most gifted players, in fact technically they're limited compared to their central and western European peers, but they work hard and they get the job done largely as a result of their determination.

          I used to think Mantalos was slowing down, but he's getting back to his very best since two very serious knee injuries. Limnios will only get better and I believe his future is probably in good league abroad. Lamprou either has to force his way into the PAOK eleven or look elsewhere for chances. If he keeps playing second fiddle to Limnios, assuming Limnios fails to leave this summer, then Lamprou's is going to have to prove he's the better player or leave himself.

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          • I don’t think Lamprou is trying to be anyone. Sure he isn’t have idols that he looks up to like CR7 but the layer himself is more than capable of proud icing flashy tricks. That can’t be said for many Greek player. But I understand why Limnios is favoured over Lamprou. Maybe with a different coach Lamprou can get more chances. But Limnios is having a great season.

            Just to change the subject, JVS is looking to cap Poungouras as he has been scouting him for a while. I personally think we have one or two better options. Is it me or am I missing something? If anyone knows about Poungouras please give some feedback.

            When Hatzidiakos is back and healthy he must come back in the starting line up.

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            • Don Giovanni
              Don Giovanni commented
              Editing a comment
              I meant only Limnios. He has a very direct, no frills approach, which is very mature of him. Lamprou is more creative. They're both good players in their own right.

          • I never thought Poungouras was Ethniki material but I have not seen enough of him, some PAO mates of mine think he is so would be good to get some more green fan feedback on this

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            • Kojak
              Kojak commented
              Editing a comment
              No doubt he has played well and been consistent. However its hard to make any bold statements about the guy, Hes 24 and its only his first season as a regular starter. He has no standout attributes, cant say his height is an advantage, nor amazing strength, cant say he leads the team from the back (thats schenkeveld), hes just allround evenly solid. As a PAO fan would it please me to see him capped sure, do i think its premature to reward him with a call up having not even completed 1 season as starting CB, yes,

          • JVS was in Cyprus this past week and sea player like Galitsios, Kaltsas, Vellidis, Vasilakakis and Manthatis play. I hope he looks into Manthatis because he has talent.

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            • I think we should not be giving out national team caps so easily. Valerianos is a nice man and worked hard for his success, but the fact is It cheapens the shirt when players like Valerianos wear it. He had the honor of wearing the Aris jersey, but the honor of the Greek jersey should be heavier than that. This is a player who went from playing for the Greek NT to a loan for the Latvian champions. That's not acceptable. Topalidis, Rehhagel's assistant, said as much without mentioning names.

              When I see players like Poungouras being talked up, it's very disappointing. Another CB? One whose potential is rather limited? At best, he can become another Kapsis and even that is a stretch. Kapsis played at the highest levels for several seasons and with success before competing as effectively as he did at Euro 2004. He had previous experience against the likes of Raul, Zidane, and Figo. Poungouras who, outside of Greece, has only ever competed in Poland. The best player he has ever gone up against is El-Arabi. If the coach wants a left-footed Greek player who can play at CB, rather than playing an out-of-sort Stafylidis there, shouldn't he be looking at Mavropanos now on loan to Nuremburg? Even Sokratis refers to him as a better player than him and his successor. I'm at a loss as to why Mavropanos has not been called up to date. Here's someone who is probably the next Dellas. He was offered a loan option to go to PAO, but rather intelligently turned them down. Nowhere do I read reports of Van't Schip taking any serious interest in him. Instead we read about Poungouras.

              Van't Schip said some players were more concerned with buying a house than playing for Greece, an obvious dig at Manolas, but I see reports that he will call-up Poungouras? This is who is going to replace Manolas?

              Galitsios is as old as Torosidis. He's experienced and has played at good levels, but now he's in Cyprus. A great coach could have probably inspired Torosidis to have carried on for one or even two more seasons, even if that meant from the bench, but the way Torosidis has been treated by Anastasiadis and the EPO has soured him.

              It sounds to me we are scrapping the bottom of the barrel with some of these names.

              Players like Vasiliadis, who scored a fantastic goal over the weekend in the Bundesliga, and Mavropanos in Germany's second division are the players who are going to raise our game. These two will likely become mainstays for us over the next ten years! He needs to win back Sokratis and Manolas too. It's obvious many of our senior players are upset with the EPO and the direction they have taken the team for the past few years. He has to win back their trust.

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              • I agree with you Don. Why Poungouras? Also Vasiliadis and Mavropanos will raise our game for sure. But I’m starting to have faith in JVS and what he and his team are trying to do. He’s doing things the right way. I think he is trying to broaden the talent pool as much as possible as he has said that no one is being left out. Also attitude is being looked at aswell as talent.

                As far as Manolas and Sokratis goes, I think the EPO have made them reluctant to come back. They’ve must’ve really had problems with them. Anyways it’s better that we move on and find the right players for the team. JVS has said that they are more than welcome to return, but that’s if they want to.
                Last edited by Dean97; 02-04-2020, 08:54 PM.

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                • It looks like Mavropanos will he called up along with these players:

                  Kyriakopoulos, Lampropoulos, Poungouras, Marinakis, Tsilianidis and Bouzoukis.

                  This also tells me that Sokratis and Manolas don’t want to come back.

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                  • I can only comment on the players i watch regularly - on shear national team quality/potential Poungouras and Marinakis do not deserve a call up. On form bouzoukis does not deserve a call up (though his only saving grace is most of his starts this year have not been in his preferred position).

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                    • Well if you think about it, who do we have at the moment at CB? K.Paps hasn’t played for almost a year and is very injury prone. Siovas is turning 32 and I don’t think JVS sees him as an option. Sokratis and Manolas are still salty over what has happened. So these 4 are out of contention.

                      Retsos hasn’t played much and is starting to get his rhythm again after a long injury. He is 50/50 at the moment at getting called up in my opinion. Hatzidiakos is still out injured and recovering from his injury. So you could say these 2 are out. So we don’t really have anymore viable options to put at CB.

                      Mavropanos has started playing and JVS seems to like him. Lampropoulos is a back up option at best. So that leaves us with Poungouras who is very questionable as he hasn’t got standout attributes as you’ve mentioned. We can’t play Stafylidis again at CB but JVS still wants a left footed CB and that’s why he wants to call up Kyriakopoulos, even though he is a LB.

                      So Poungouras is the only decent option left. Also with the RB position it seems like the situation with Baldock will take longer than expected. Marinakis has played 24 games this season and that’s why I believe he will be called up. We have no other options at RB apart from Bakakis. Unless JVS is thinking of playing Retsos there, which I don’t think is the case.

                      I also agree that Bouzoukis is a 10. But I would like to see him as an 8. I think with Bouzoukis in the 8 position it would give the team more fluidity than it already has. With Bouzoukis a bit deeper I believe he can make our attacks much more effective from the middle. That’s my opinion but I do believe if Bouzoukis was to play as a CM he would have to sharpen the defensive side of his game a bit more to be a great and viable option there.
                      Last edited by Dean97; 02-08-2020, 12:00 AM.

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                      • Bouzoukis is close to unplayable atm, even off the bench. He cost us in the cup, cheaply giving the ball away outside the box, which eventually resulted in the dubious penalty and paok’s first. The team was doing quite well up until that point. Mind you, when I saw him starting in place of nagy on the flank, it just didn’t sit right with me. And if it seemed like there was a lot of space on that side of the park, it’s because bouzoukis doesn’t have the discipline and lacks the physical traits to play that position. Regardless, he gets easily outmuscled and opponents look to attack him because they know he can’t offer any resistance. So centrally, he can’t play anything other than the 10 but even as a 10, he just doesn’t create enough. Zahid who has replaced him in the starting 11, does this at a higher clip and shows nice composure on the ball. It’s disappointing for bouzoukis and I hope he does find his niche like chatzigiovanis. For that to happen though, he’ll need to become a better 10 or improve defensively like modric did under harry redknapp which meant he could be deployed deeper. I'm not going to lie, it has crossed my mind that a move abroad is probably the best thing for him. He'll have exposure to better coaching. Also, with pao's overall improvement, my bet is they look to keep zahid or bring in an equivalent, someone that's ready to fulfil commitments which can again freeze out bouzoukis. They've already signed some dude called carlitos who apparently is quite versatile. Not to mention, there's macheda who for me is better as an attacking mid as opposed to a striker.

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                        • ^ that’s not good to hear. I do find Bouzoukis talented but reading what your saying doesn’t give me much hope for him as I don’t watch the games only the highlights. Bouzoukis does need to work on the defensive side on his game and also his physical strength. Players of his generation are the future of our national team and it is imperative that this generation gets the proper guidance and proper instructions given to them. A move abroad for Bouzoukis seems ideal, the same can be said for Limnios, Chatzigiovannis etc.

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                          • Hopefully by the time World Cup qualifying begins, Manolas will be back in the squad. He's an exceptional defender, one of the best in the world. I think for Greece to be competitive, we need him. I think he can continue until at least Euro 2024.

                            Sokratis is a touch-and-go subject. He's slow off the mark. His recovery challenges and ability in the air is not what it once was, but he's as strong as strong comes and he can still keep some of the best in the game on a leash. He has proven himself against Cristiano and Messi, performing exceptionally against them in his prime. He's been teammates with Lewandowski and De Bruyne, another two players who I think are the closest in quality to Cristiano and Messi. He knows how to take on the best in the world. I still think he has something to offer and his experience, relative to other Greeks, is unbridled. It will take years before we find someone of similar experience and quality. That said, I think he's finished at Arsenal, so it's now a matter of what kind of ambition he shows once he leaves. He has to continue at a good level to compete with Greece. Even a return to Greece wouldn't be good enough in and of itself. He would have to at least compete in the UCL. Zagorakis returned to AEK and was competing in the UCL. Should he return to Greece and do the same, that would be good enough for me to see him continue with Greece, but even a move to a midtable EPL, Bundesliga, or Series A team would do him well. I think his future is likely on the Greek bench should he be willing to accept that. If we lose Manolas to suspension or injury, he's the player we would want to step into his place.

                            The problem for Siovas is his club look relegation bound and he's been out injured. At 32, it's hard to imagine him finding another La Liga club or continuing at a similar level, but he too would need to show ambition to continue with Greece. Maybe he goes down a division with Leganes should they be relegated and help them back up, like Moras did at Verona and Bologna. He's a viable option so long as he can stay at a competitive level, but he's getting older and he'll be 34 come the World Cup. He's still an option, but this is likely his last rodeo with Greece.

                            ATM, they're our best CBs and to find quality replacements will take time. Retsos, Hatzidiakos and Mavropanos look to be the likeliest candidates, but they're still very young and lack experience.

                            Bare minimum, I think we need Manolas and at least one of Sokratis or Siovas on the bench. Retsos, Hatzidiakos, or Mavropanos would need to start alongside Manolas. Maybe we go with a back three or we play one of them at RB, something Retsos has done at Leverkusen and for Greece in the past. Beyond these six options, we have Kourbelis and technically Stafylidis. I don't see much beyond these options.

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