Suggested Call Ups/Starting 11

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  • Not happy with the Tzavellas call up. He’s not a good footballer and worst of all I think he isn't a good human being. Bakakis also called up and hasn’t played. I agree with you Don if Stafylidis can get called up without playing then Retsos should too.

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    • Retsos obsession continues I see...

      Bakakis has played but got injured so not sure if he will be ready in time

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      • This is where JVS confuses the hell out of me, He doesn't want Manolas on the team due to his attitude and he wants to rebuild the team but then he goes and calls up another guy part of that group who is a hot headed as well. At this point why not just call up Manolas who is the most skilled defender we have???

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        • Van't Schip wants to plays out of the back. Manolas is a very skilled player (for a defender), but conservative in his passing capable of more limited distribution. Stafylidis has a good left foot capable of hitting long balls. His pass completion isn't as good, but he's willing to play a more progressive passing game. Likewise, Hatzidiakos has a better understanding for passing the ball out of the back. The coach wants a balanced center-back pairing: one left-footed and one right-footed. For van't Schip, I think he'd rather have a Manolas on board, but I think he feels he can live without him and build a Greece for the future. Qualifying for the 2022 World Cup was always going to be a difficult proposition, even with Manolas on the team. It's preposterous to believe we will qualify for the World Cup with Stafylidis at center-back. It's even more preposterous than it was then to drop Holebas and play Stafylidis in the expectation of qualifying for Euro 2016!

          This decision to bring Tzavellas back... talk about running out of options. After giving Siovas the boot, who else can the coach call upon with more than 2 caps to his name? Imagine a central defense with him and Hatzidiakos (who has spent the better half of 2020 on crutches) taking on Muriqi. Tzavellas at least has some familiarity, but Muriqi will overpower both. The loss of Siovas will be felt here, never mind the loss of Manolas.

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          • Originally posted by Jsoul View Post
            This is where JVS confuses the hell out of me, He doesn't want Manolas on the team due to his attitude and he wants to rebuild the team but then he goes and calls up another guy part of that group who is a hot headed as well. At this point why not just call up Manolas who is the most skilled defender we have???
            My thoughts exactly

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            • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBaYqV6R1Fw

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              • I just wanted to point some things out. I’ve notice with Greece that we have a team that sabotages itself, especially with selections. When I look at the squad currently we have players who are either not international quality eg. (Kourbelis and Bakasetas) and players who aren’t at their full potential yet as footballers eg. (Pavlidis, Hatzidiakos and Galanopoulos).

                We are lacking high quality established players. Tsimikas, Manolas, Siovas, Fortounis and Fetfatzidis are the ones that come to mind who are our established players. Everyone else is either too young or not good enough. Like if you think about it is Kourbelis and Bouchalakis any better than Samaris and Tachtsidis for the national team? There’s not much difference between all of them. None have made a significant difference to Greece overall performances. Especially going forward.

                I know in a 4-2-3-1 we are supposed to have 2 out and out DMs but why? I think Greece is limiting there chances for real success with this kind of system. I know it could be dangerous to put a CAM in at CDM because of the defensive responsibilities needed for that role. I’m hoping that if or when we put Mantalos there that this won’t be a problem. But he hasn’t been put there yet because of the risk it plays defensively, positionally and mentally.

                The 4-2-3-1 is apparently supposed to have 2DMs and 3AMs. That’s why we’ve seen Mantalos, Fortounis and Pelkas played on the wings. It’s interesting now we are seeing an actual winger in Limnios on the right and so far he’s been doing very well. Clearly a real standout to everyone else on the team.

                I know we lack proper CMs. CMs who can do the job equally in defence and attack. Zeca is more defensive and so is Kourbelis. They clean up well, have stamina and make decent interceptions. Apart from that they are clueless with the ball. Bouchalakis is sort of an 8 but doesn’t really standout in either defence or attack. Some say he should be deeper, others say he should be higher up. He’s seems more error prone to me. I don’t know what to do with him but for now I would leave him on the bench for Greece and Olympiakos.

                Vasiliadis who seems promising but haven’t been given a chance yet for Greece. Someone who is full of energy and seems good technically. Want to see him in a Greece shirt to make my final judgment about him. But he is someone who is playing in a decent level who is a pure 8.

                Regarding Olympiakos and Martins, I don’t like how they’ve been dealing with Androutsos and Manthatis. Especially Androutsos. There’s no point keeping someone talented like Androutsos rotting on the bench or not even on the bench. He should’ve been loaned out to go play in the Netherlands or in Spain. We need someone like him in my opinion. Manthatis who had an average season in Cyprus should’ve been loaned out again to get more minutes, instead he is now a free agent. I don’t like how Olympiakos are treating there homegrown talent. I even think PAOK are doing a better job in this department. PAOK have 5-6 players from the u19s in the first team. With Tzolis and Michailidis getting a lot of game time.

                I’m just trying to understand what we’re doing with our midfield situation. Zeca, Kourbelis and Bakasetas are 3 players that are supposed to be running the team. We can’t be continuing to have 2 players sitting deep while an incompetent number 10 for international standards by himself creating the play. Bakasetas is just not good enough for that. Fortounis has to step in at number 10 without a doubt. Or you go 4-3-3 and and play 2 players in front of the 6 that can help each other and share the load in terms of creating the play. Also in a 4-3-3 we can play out and out wingers who can make the right runs forward and take on players.

                I know I’ve wasted my time talking about this as these things will propably never happen and I’ve most likely wasted 20-30 minutes talking out of my ass. But these things need to be thought of, especially by Van’t Schip. We also need our younger more talented players to get better agents to convince the EPO of playing time otherwise I don’t see us going anywhere with Bakasetas, Bakakis and the current EPO.
                Last edited by Dean97; 10-30-2020, 08:41 AM.

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                • Good Points. We have been fortunate for years to have a solid back line which was what we were known for, right now there is no question we have taken a step backwards but we still have some depth if the right players are called up. Our two major problems since Kara retired has been our Mid we have no one that can control the game and a true leader on the field, we have tried numerous combinations and nothing has worked. Zeca is a work horse but lacks the skill. Kourbelis and Bouchalakis just aren't good enough in my opinion. second problem was we have no striker that can continuously put the ball in the net. Mitro who lacked a lot of abilities and was a one dimensional player at least could put the ball in the net and finish on the few chances he would get. Personally I think until we can address those two major issues we will never progress the way want.

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                  • Originally posted by Jsoul View Post
                    Good Points. We have been fortunate for years to have a solid back line which was what we were known for, right now there is no question we have taken a step backwards but we still have some depth if the right players are called up. Our two major problems since Kara retired has been our Mid we have no one that can control the game and a true leader on the field, we have tried numerous combinations and nothing has worked. Zeca is a work horse but lacks the skill. Kourbelis and Bouchalakis just aren't good enough in my opinion. second problem was we have no striker that can continuously put the ball in the net. Mitro who lacked a lot of abilities and was a one dimensional player at least could put the ball in the net and finish on the few chances he would get. Personally I think until we can address those two major issues we will never progress the way want.
                    I agree with everything you’ve said. Also by playing any of Bouchalakis, Kourbelis and Zeca is like having Maniatis and Tziolis playing again. They provide no vision and all are one dimensional. We’re better off having one of them play and sit deep with the other who is more adventurous, industrious and attacking. Preferably Mantalos or Vasiliadis.

                    I’m willing to give Pavlidis as much time as possible. I believe he is our future number 9. He just needs a better CAM behind him and Fortounis is that player. Pavlidis just needs someone to link up with and someone who he can trust and rely on to set him up. Bakasetas isn’t the answer.

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                    • Originally posted by Dean97 View Post

                      I know in a 4-2-3-1 we are supposed to have 2 out and out DMs but why? I think Greece is limiting there chances for real success with this kind of system. I know it could be dangerous to put a CAM in at CDM because of the defensive responsibilities needed for that role. I’m hoping that if or when we put Mantalos there that this won’t be a problem. But he hasn’t been put there yet because of the risk it plays defensively, positionally and mentally.

                      The 4-2-3-1 is apparently supposed to have 2DMs and 3AMs. That’s why we’ve seen Mantalos, Fortounis and Pelkas played on the wings. It’s interesting now we are seeing an actual winger in Limnios on the right and so far he’s been doing very well. Clearly a real standout to everyone else on the team.
                      growing up - outside of brazilian football, there were 3 basic schemes (formations)...classic british 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and german 5-3-2 (sweeper (italian catenaccio twist - flat back 4 and sweeper) or german - a libero (beckenbauer)). the dutch threw all that stuff out with 'total' football, but, it's still important to have set positions at kick-off and those same players to be in their 'defined' vicinity the rest of the 90 minutes.

                      different schemes can have tactical nuances - such as overlapping FB or both FBs on 'chalk on boots' wingers in a 4-4-2, a big/small duo at CF, one runs to 1st post, other runs to 2nd post, which CM covers which FB when that FB makes a run...on and on it goes.

                      the 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 both create space, due to the wide players. the smartest person i learned football went on and on about 'h ekmetaleush kevou xwpou'. later, the italians taught me the same. well, who would take advantage of the empty space provided by those schemes? THE 2 CMs. runs into the box, especially late runs, can devastate a defense, if not, for sure break their shape - all it takes is one tired CM not to track a run.

                      the 4-2-3-1 also has wide players. space is artificially created? correct??

                      ok, with only 1 actual CM that has a realistic chance to score from open play, you can immediately see the 4-2-3-1 is a negative bastardization of the 4-3-3. asking the one of the two in a double pivot to make runs from 50 yards all match is not optimal due to confusion and stamina. i supposed it may work if the ACM is wolrd-class. a luxury for big sides, not all clubs or nations have a world-class #10.

                      i never liked this scheme and greece utilizing this is tantamount to banging your head on barbed wire and concrete.

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                      • These are the players that have been called up for our next matches. The blue are the ones I agree that should be there and the ones I’ve given a pass to. The red is the ones I don’t agree with and the ones that shouldn’t even be there.

                        Vlachodimos, Dioudis, Barkas, Hatzidiakos, Michaildis, Giannoulis, Kyriakopoulos, Bouchalakis, Masouras, Limnios, Pelkas, Tsimikas, Siopis, Tzolis, Mantalos, Fortounis, Pavlidis

                        Rota, Svarnas, Lampropoulos, Tzavellas, Kourbelis, Zeca, Bakasetas, Mavrias, Koulouris, Giakoumakis

                        So, there’s 17 players that in my opinion have rightly been called up and 10 that have been wrongly called up.

                        The ones in the green (when healthy and available) are the ones that should replace the reds in my opinion.

                        G.Masouras, Retsos, Manolas, Mavropanos, Vasiliadis, Galanopoulos, Fountas, Lyratzis, Douvikas, Chatzigiovannis
                        Last edited by Dean97; 11-06-2020, 09:58 AM.

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