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  • Hold on. Sokratis championed Skibbe and did everything he could privately and publicly to keep him in a job after Skibbe failed - failed massively. That shows Sokratis has shit for brains. Secondly, Sokratis said yesterday he would do nothing differently! If it was up to him we would still have Skibbe therefore. Sokratis is an egoist and a fool.

    As for Manolas, he wont call VS because of his ego. Nothing else.

    I agree VS is an average coach and cheap option. I never wanted him.

    Siovas did not speak from the heart. He spoke about a delicate situation and put pressure on VS. Siovas stupidly thought with his motm performance, it gave him room to wield some power. It was a calculated bitch that is 1/ Very Greek and 2/ Rarely works in non-Greeks as Siovas found out. I championed Manolas from day one. I have said he was Greece's best CB from when he was still at Oly with 100s of posters explaining in vain to me why clumsy Sokratis is better. Manolas is now a rich man. Greece for him represents a chance to get injured, nothing more. If he truly adored Greece and believed he could lift the team massively, he would be on the phone to VS daily. He wants to play for the Greek NT on his terms. Like Sokratis and Siovas - to say what they want, to whom they want. The right to bitch. Very Greek and simply, very bad for morale. VS stated clearly all the players can speak to him any time about any subject but cannot undermine him to the media. Constantly, for example, England players are asked after games - 'who is the best player? Who won the game tonight for you? Is there a better keeper that xyz?' And each time they reply, 'it's a team sport, we all support each other, I dont want to single out one player..' etc. They do not pick a player their coach has famously dropped and call him the best English player on earth..

    This is all a distraction. The issue is not sok, manolas or siovas. The issues are Bakasetas being the first name on the team sheet, Staf being any where near internatiobal football, let alone captain of greece and VS's dangerous obsession with playing AMs as pure wingers.

    Comment


    • Having Skibbe at the helm was the closest arrangement we could get to having Rehhagel back, whom Skibbe had counted on for advice. Skibbe took us to within a play-off spot of the World Cup. We missed out to Belgium and Croatia, the teams that finished third place and runners-up respectively. I hardly think Greece could have found someone much better under the circumstances.

      Also Sokratis must know what goes on behind the scenes and chances are he'd have been aware of how Anastasiadis was being lined up to replace Skibbe. I will say that Skibbe's place as manager did become untenable, but finding a good replacement was never going to be easy.

      All Sokratis had to do was survive Anastasiadis. To Sokratis credit, he actually tried to make the best of things until after the loss to Armenia and Euro qualification, possibly his last tournament for Greece, had hung in the balance, now fully dependent on a win over Finland in the following game. I can't say the same of Manolas, who was dropped by Anastasiadis after the Italy loss. It was evident to me that game he was dogging it. In fact, just the other day Gattuso criticized Manolas for dogging it in the last few minutes in Napoli's win over Parma. It was Manolas who went to Grammenos demanding a new coach. Sokratis, who you say has shit for brains, was far more diplomatic and simply demanded that changes be made, without demanding anything specific. I don't know how anyone can disagree with Sokratis, maybe his comments after the game were misplaced, there's an argument there, but what he said was the truth and needed to be addressed.

      Let's also be clear that there was a plan among some in the EPO who wanted to start fresh with a new generation of players after the debacle of the last 6 years. Even before Anastasiadis came along, people at the EPO were pushing for this.

      Let's also be clear that this current situation with Manolas and Sokratis is no different than the situation with Holebas before. All were made scapegoats for failures that went well beyond anything they could be held accountable for. And all were replaced by none other than Stafylidis, ironically enough.

      Whether Bakasetas plays or not is not the major issue in my mind. Getting players to perform to a certain standard is and truth be told Manolas and Holebas didn't meet that standard. In saying that, banning them was never the answer to our problems. If there is any distraction, then it's the EPO scapegoating players for problems that originate with their general mismanagement, like failing to schedule a Greek Cup final on a sensible date and leading the team into financial disarray by providing Ranieri too much contractual leverage.

      The problems with the Greek national team (and the general state of Greek football) don't actually start with the players, rather it ends with them. The problems start with football owners like Savvidis and Marinakis who have been poisoning the wells of Greek football with their war of attrition. The pissing contest between Savvidis and Marinakis is killing Greek football. Things can get worse still and I think there may come a point when UEFA and FIFA simply ban us from their competitions.

      Comment


      • I have to agree with Reaper. I think this is all a distraction to the actual problem. The actual problem is believing that Stafylidis, Bakakis and Bakasetas are starters for this team. To say they are the best we have is wrong. Against the likes of Ronaldo, Lukaku, Lewandowski and Kane, Stafylidis doesn’t stand a chance. Hatzidiakos or Mavropanos will be have there work cut out for them if they are playing next to him.

        At the same time I don’t think Fortounis and Mantalos are our answers going forward. Bith are better than Bakasetas but both are not the same players they were before there injuries. Not saying they are terrible but they aren’t the same. Mantalos end product needs work. Fortounis needs to get tougher and not slow the game down. Fortounis end product is better than Mantalos but he still needs work. Fortounis is more of a luxury player.

        Anyways I’ve sort of side tracked a bit. Siovas shouldn’t say what he said in public. Say that to the coach in private. Also you can’t put down a player like Svarnas Someone who I thought did very well for his standards in both games. We do have better though. Svarnas is only 22 and has lots to learn still. I think this tells us if any player mentions Manolas or Sokratis name you know where your heading. Siovas was brave in a stupid way not a smart way. But he was right with what he said. Manolas is the best Greek CB.

        I am 50/50 with Van’t Schip decision. I think he did the right thing but at the same time he can’t be thinking of putting Stafylidis there. He will make too many errors. Also we are stacked at LB. He has to find a new captain.
        Last edited by Dean97; 09-22-2020, 08:07 AM.

        Comment


        • Both Bakasetas and Stafylidis have been given the armband. The fact van't Schip did that suggest he believes in them. So long as van't Schip is coach, these two will likely feature in his plans for the foreseeable future.

          With respect to Bakasetas, we're talking about a player who found form, translated that form from club to country, and who raised standards. It's evident that this player is being used as a model for others to follow, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will be a key player as others meet that standard.

          With respect to Stafylidis, he has a very good left foot, he's aggressive and harasses for the ball, and he does as told no questions asked. These are the qualities that alerted van't Schip in trusting him. The coach accepts that we will concede goals when he plays, but the trade off is we'll have the better of the ball and the better of the chances. That's the logic behind this choice.

          In saying the above, I'm not stating I agree with what he's doing, but this is how I interpret the coach's intentions.

          I will also say, I think you two have both misread the situation concerning Siovas' ban.

          Van't Schip never banned Sokratis and Manolas. He still hasn't said he banned them. Yet in banning Siovas he has made it clear this was his intention all along, but van't Schip still hasn't banned Sokratis and Manolas because he knows that ultimately he may have no choice but to rely on them. The facts are these three are Greece's most dependable and experienced defenders.

          Now it's not hard for someone to feel this is a mistake. To state it differently, we are building our defense around a player that committed more individual errors than any other player during Euro 2016, World Cup 2018, and Euro 2020 qualification. If there was ever a player to drop from the Greek national team in the past 5 years on the basis of poor performances, Stafylidis would be the one who topped the list.

          The only sideshow I'm aware of is the one that keeps scapegoating players for problems that go much more to the root of what ails our sport in Greece. All this talk about which player plays or who coaches the team is not the source of the problems. The EPO has never put its house in order after years of rot and corruption. Today, inexperienced new faces along with front men for the same old corrupt faces run the Greek FA. And as bad as that is, the worst is how the EPO has turned into little more than a battleground between Savvidis and Marinakis to see who blinks first in their game of chicken which threatens to kick Greece out of international competition. We have very serious problems on an administrative level that go way beyond Stafylidis becoming captain of the national team affecting the future of Greek football as a whole.

          Comment


          • Καμία εντύπωση δεν έκανε το κόψιμο του Σιόβα. Καμία απολύτως. Πέραν του ότι είχε προαναγγελθεί, του ανακοινώθηκε κιόλας από τον ίδιο τον Φαν’τ Σχιπ.
            Cutting Siovas had no affect, none, because van't Schip had pretty admitted as from before.

            Δεν είναι όμως αυτό το ζήτημα. Ούτε καν το θέμα των αρχηγιών και των περιβραχιονίων που «παίζει» πολύ από χτες.
            That's not the issue. Nor is it the captaincy, which played (in the media?) a lot since yesterday.

            Το θέμα είναι [...]
            [...] άλλα διαβάζουν σε δημόσιο λόγο από τους υπεύθυνους και άλλα πρακτικά διαπιστώνουν να γίνονται στ’ αποδυτήρια.
            The issue is one thing is being publicized, but practically something else is made to be believed in the locker rooms.

            Το κακό είναι πως έχει αρχίσει να επηρεάζει, εκεί ακριβώς, στ’ αποδυτήρια, πολύ κόσμο.
            This issue is now starting to influence many of the players.
            Εθνική Ελλάδας: Για άλλον λόγο είχα σκοπό να αναφέρω τον Σιόβα σήμερα, διαφορετικά με ανάγκασε να το κάνω ο εκλέκτορας. Πρώτα λοιπόν ήθελα...

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            • That article and many others are a load of BS.

              Not 1 member of the media/journo etc, has the good of the NT in mind when writing this crap.

              We keep getting fed this mentality that the NT (in terms of the players & JVS) is destabilised with rifts left right and centre ( not mentioning the EPO thats a separate issue)

              Right now JVS hasn't excelled, but hasn't tanked either in meeting the current goals.

              JVS needs the NT to perform for his own career, and unlike others may think i actually don't believe he has many other options as big as managing the greek NT. He needs this stint to be a success if he is to get other offers. He needs to see the NT as a stepping stone because that is the drive we need from a manager to succeed at this spoint. We will not find another Otto (we tried with ranieri).

              JVS needs loyal, reliable soldiers in the squad, as sometimes unity is what gets points over talent, which is why he persists with stafylidis etc.

              The EPO may be a massive hindrance and will always be, but the greek clubs themselves have their own agendas with their own media outlets spouting crap that causes additional problems we don't need, and that we don't have a solution for unfortunately.

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              • ^ I'm not going to disagree with much of that, but in saying that, and I'm sure you agree as will others, the media in Greece is not critical enough, partisan perhaps, but not critical enough. Compared to other countries, a coach like van't Schip would have been more harshly criticized for his decisions.

                And the article made the point that I think we can all appreciate. There are inconsistencies with what van't Schip says. Also I don't think he's being honest about having the door open. His intention has been to qualify for Euro 2020 if he could. When that didn't work out, he went the direction he wanted (which the EPO wanted), to develop a new generation of players for the future that excludes players like Manolas. His aim, realistically, is not to qualify for the World Cup. Only 13 teams will make it. And I don't know how we can continue to exclude players like Manolas, Sokratis, Retsos... these were the only players who performed well against Croatia. Manolas was suspended for the first leg and his loss was felt. We need all our best players if we are to stand any chance of qualification.

                I should add here, Sokratis made it clear before that the 2018 World Cup and the 2020 Euros were probably his last rodeos with the Greek NT. He knows he's slowing down physically and others, like his apprentice at Arsenal, Mavropanos, are going to replace him soon. Manolas, however, is in his prime and it's going to take years to get a player at his level again. All these new names need a minimum of 4-5 years before they can get to that level. We are shooting ourselves in the foot leaving him out. So for Siovas to have said what he said wasn't necessarily wrong and if the coach had intended to bring Manolas back into the fold, then there's really no issue. The problem is van't Schip doesn't plan to and he won't admit it, so he's playing a dishonest game and no one in the media is calling him out for it. They ought to.

                Comment


                • I think it pains Van’t Schip just as much as any Siovas fan to cut him. A left footed CB with lots of experience and plays regularly. Also he is a good player. If the EPO and Van’t Schip are looking towards the future, then putting faith in Stafylidis as captain and as a starting CB doesn’t really make sense. Stafylidis is nearly 27, which isn’t really a problem but he hasn’t been playing and isn’t a CB. Also he is very error prone. I’m not the coach but everyone seems to agree with me when I say that.

                  The next CB going forward should be Hatzidiakos and Mavropanos. That’s our next best options. Retsos can cover the whole back line. So he’s another decent option. Svarnas, Michaildis and others should be behind them. We also have a friendly coming up before the next two matches so we should find a proper replacement. Stafylidis is injured at the moment, so I don’t know if he will play...

                  I think the aim is to build a new team and to try and get results because he won’t have a job if the team isn’t winning. Then making the World Cup should come with it. I am with you Don about having that experience like Manolas or Siovas to get us over the finish line. But I’m impressed with what Van’t Schip has done with limited and average players like Kourbelis, Stafylidis and Bakasetas. I’m just imagining what he could do with better alternatives.
                  Last edited by Dean97; 09-24-2020, 08:55 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Stafylidis at CB is a joke, simple as that

                    Comment


                    • A simple and good idea would be for VS to champion someone who has skill and character.

                      Also it would be so nice to see a Greek NT team with players not shoehorned in to the wrong positions. For example an average CB at CB is far more secure than a error prone LB shoehorned in at CB.

                      Comment


                      • Van't Schip probably let Siovas go sooner than he wanted, but it was his intention to at one point get ruthless with him. Siovas knew this as well. It's why he started on the bench against Kosovo.

                        Stafylidis comes with risks in that kind of role, for sure, but part of van't Schip's calculus is we will concede. He's prepared to accepts that, but he has set the team up in a way to get forward effectively. Converting that forward-minded approach into goals so that we outscore opponents is where things may get tricky. We've been lucky with Limnios. He's a real danger man. His game still needs to improve, but on the evidence he has shown so far, he can deliver goals. Others like Pavlidis need a bit more time still, but they have the tools to eventually get there. Fortounis, Bakasetas, Masouras, Mantalos, Koulouris, Fountas, etc, need to make the most of their opportunities and provide that difference up front. It's evident to me Limnios and Pavlidis have the biggest potential of this bunch. Fortounis, for all his skill, needs to bulk up and learn to defend. No more free rides like he got under Anastasiadis.

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                        • In a perfect world, I would like to see Manolas as the captain leading us into the World Cup with the rest of the squad consisting of the best 18-25 year olds we have with a few exceptions here and there. Players with skill and who are willing to give their all. That’s how we should rebuild in my opinion.

                          A starting 11 of:

                          Vlachodimos

                          Vagiannidis Manolas Hatzidiakos Tsimikas

                          Vasiliadis Alexandropoulos

                          Limnios Bouzoukis Giannoulis

                          Tzolis/Koulouris

                          Or

                          Dioudis

                          Masouras Manolas Retsos Koutris

                          Galanopoulos Bouchalakis

                          Lamprou Vrousai Fountas/Donis

                          Pavlidis

                          Other players: Androutsos, Kyriakopoulos, Masouras, Mavropanos, Barkas and Michailidis...

                          Comment


                          • Tzolis with a hattrick today.

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                            • Superb stuff from Tzolis. I liked the way he scored his 2nd and 3rd goal. Most of our wingers currently like Chatzigiovannis, Lamprou and Limnios would’ve missed those chances and wouldn’t have been in those situations to score. If you look at the highlights, Lamprou who I like, missed the easiest chance to score after Tzolis shot from outside the box and the keeper parried it. That’s not good enough. I even would like to see Tzolis start as a striker for Greece. He can finish them off. I also wouldn’t mind him starting on the left or right wing.

                              Tzolis has shown way more than any of our current national team starters. Also especially at the age of 18. What did Bakasetas, Limnios, Pavlidis and Chatzigiovannis do at the age of 18 compared to Tzolis? Tzolis is already showing way more consistency and even lifting PAOK on his back. I think he should leave in the summer to a more competitive league. The German, Italian, Spanish and Dutch leagues would be the best thing for any Greek talent that are wanting to move on from the Greek league. Anything more competitive than the Greek league is a step up in my opinion. Greek league is good for players wanting to rebuild and gain momentum like after a few years of not playing or players losing there way. Also the league should be used to give youngsters like Tzolis the time to showcase their abilities. PAOK this year have been doing it and so have PAO.

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                              • https://m.sport24.gr/longreads/o-dim...XPrl7afr-PZGVM
                                Great interview with Siovas. Talking about JVS, the Ethniki and what he said after the Kosovo game. Also talks about how most players don’t deserve to be in the team.

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