Where does the team go from here?

[Don Giovanni]

We were outclassed by Italy. This isn't the Italy that lost out to the 2018 WCQ or did poorly in the Nations League. This Italy might win Euro 2020 as they continue to get better and improve. But even they have a lot to do still in order to get to that level.

In my opinion, and I said this before the game knowing we would lose between 0-2 to 0-4 against Italy, that Anastasiadis is someone we should continue with until the end of this qualification campaign as I do believe he has the capabilities to lead Greece to Euro 2020. That said, I think that we probably need a better quality manager for the finals proper--should we qualify--and that we should keep Anastasiadis on as a technical director in case that new manager doesn't work out. Granted, if it becomes evident we can no longer qualify for Euro 2020, then Anastasiadis will need to be let go. My guess is that Dellas would be brought in under those circumstances.

Let's also be clear that the problems aren't all on the coach. Where the problems really are is our lack of quality on the ball and lack of organization. Also fitness is a big issue. There are remedies to these problems, but they will require time and patience in order to properly address them; however, these solutions are in our reach.

Now it's very obvious we had trouble bringing the ball under our control. I'm not saying we need to dominate possession, but we need to be able to play the ball to a reasonable degree. The answer to that begins with Tachtsidis and 2-3 more players who can trap a ball and pass it. Is this going to make the problem go completely away? If given a chance, Tachtsidis will move us in the right direction and in time Greece will get there to the level needed. I think his impact will be immediate and it will be felt more effectively in time.

The other problem is organizational. To solve that we need to play Samaris as a half-back, in place of where Siovas had played against Italy, or as a full-fledged CB. And even then, we'll need to be patient with him. He has to mature and grow into his role still. He needs to focus on organizing his teammates and leave the passes, especially the vertical kind, to Tachtsidis. We need him organizing his teammates, not trying to play killer passes in Italy's final third nor picking up yellows because he was way up field when Greece was going to get caught on the counter.

Frankly, if Samaris had played as a HB instead of Siovas, I don't think Barella scores that first goal and I don't think he picks up that yellow early on, which means he could have done a better job of shutting down Insigne on the second goal. I also think we'd look more organized if we had a Samaris in that kind of role directing his teammates and helping us maintain our discipline. We need someone on the field to marshal players and he's the one to do that, or at least he will be that player in due time once he can grow into the role and gains trust directing his teammates.

Also, we need Kourbelis and Zeca to play into the middle and to press high. We need them to chase and run. I also think that we need to drop Fortounis against really quality opposition, leaving him on the bench. We need to play Pelkas and Donis up top. We need terriers, guys who can run and chase. Kolovos is a good alternative to Donis. Masouras is another option. All of them need to become players who can outrun the opposition, become very determined and hardworking. We need fit players who can last 90 minutes and chase non-stop.

As far as our approach against Italy, many of the right notes were hit; a high defensive line, a lot of pressure high up on the pitch, and something that more or less resembles a back-three. The only other key is getting Manolas or Sokratis to bomb forward into the opposition area and threaten to score with headers in open play. We need their aerial threat in open play because on set-pieces it will be very difficult.

This is a big reason why Greece is a disaster. If we don't correct this, our midfield will remain non-existent and our defense will get completely overrun, like we saw against Bosnia, Turkey and Italy. It's not going to be easy implementing this system and we might see more setbacks until we do. This is a good direction for the team. Anastasiadis must stay the course and not be discouraged from doing this.

[Reaper]

For me we have a weak bunch of players and that needs a competent coach. Anastasiadis is not the guy for me - needs to be sacked asap. No way in hell if by some miracle we qualify - he will step down. He is confident in his idiocy like most fools are. He stated many times any player can play anywhere on the pitch.. he is dangerously deluded.

As for your description, it is optimistic, but I didn't see all that you saw. For example, I didn't see a high defensive line. We sat deep and Italy only started encountering our players in any numbers mid way through our half of the pitch. The 3 at the back confused our players because it is not a system we are used to - hence why one Italian could score a header when all 3 of our CBs were in position next to him.

As for the highlights for me, forget the players struggle to control the ball - the EPO/Greek coaches don't want those types of players who can trap a football anyway. What was a highlight is we can't take throw ins. We have no idea to take a set piece - no plan. Fortounis decided to pass backwards instead of put the ball in the box when we had a free-kick inside Italy's half. Our players - although big - are easily scared and confused. All Italy had to do is step up the pitch when we were in possession and we would look to pass back the keeper. We have players needlessly out of position every game, the team is scared and confused. We have no plan - no tactics. Players called up thanks to favour system.. Even with Skibbe - who had shit for brains - you could see he was trying to get the team to score from set pieces. We don't even have that now.

For me this all falls on the coach or lack of one. There are 100s of teams - NTs and clubs - that have crappy players like we do. What you need is a coach who can mould them into a team that can somehow do some damage. Our coach damages the team with everything he does. He damages already bad players. He needs to go. If we don't get a result vs Armenia - he will most likely go - unless one of our idiot players like Sokratis steps in to defend him like he did with Skibbe. Coach leaves - we can start a fresh. Only way for me - everyday Anastasiadis stays in posts, we regress as a footballing country. Refreshingly - a few Greek writers are reading this site and being brave about describing our coach as the fool he is. Took them years to build up the courage to get to that stage with Skibbe. So things are changing and is a positive direction. Another interesting development is the prospect of Syriza losing the next election. If they do, Grammenos - the darling of Syriza, will be in trouble as will the entire EPO. Make no mistake - Greek NT football is experiencing another dark ages. It is key that when Anastasiadis is sacked - we break the Skibbe, Tsanas, Anastasiadis legion of doom and hire an actual professional.

[Don Giovanni]

Sokratis, to his credit, did the exact opposite after the loss to Armenia by demanding changes. Agreed that Greece played afraid, you're description is spot on, but Anastasiadis did set the team out to press high and defend high, which is the correct approach. We lacked quality in the middle to regulate the game. Also it will be good to see the back of Syriza soon and that their days of meddling in Greek football will soon be over.

[Dean97]

What do you guys think of Postecoglou? He is no world beater but is definitely better than Anastasiadis. Apparently we are trying to get him if things don’t work out. I think Zemen the old Roma coach would be good. He has coached Donis and Tachtsidis before.

As to where the team is heading. We will not progress with Anastasiadis tactics. Also the players are to blame just as much as the coach. What your saying Don will not happen. Unless we get a coach of real top caliber. Reaper is right it’s like we don’t want use players who can control the ball or have skill. It’s not in Samaris to dictate and organise players. It’s got to be in the player. You either have it or you don’t. Tachtsidis is capable of doing this more than Samaris. I do agree with what your saying though, Don.

[Don Giovanni]

We played a very high line which is why on the first two goals our defense was caught backtracking. Also before we conceded the goal, look how high up we pressed Italy: right up to their goal line. Zeca found himself well out of position and Italy stretched us out on the counter, which gave them space to strike.

Problem was Manolas and Sokratis were tired going into this game. Manolas I thought was very disappointing and allowed himself to get beat by Belotti and Insigne too easily. A defender of his class should do better and I don't think we concede those goals if he had performed to his capabilities. Sokratis too let his head down and didn't perform to his capabilities. Both looked like they needed a break and were burnt out. Italy started strong and the high line put our defenders under a lot of physical stress. Also our inability to control the ball gave them no relief. They couldn't catch their breath. After 20 minutes they buckled I think. In the case of Sokratis, it's clear Arsenal collapsed because their team couldn't cope with Emery's physical demands over the season. Arsenal as a team need to improve the management of their fitness levels so that they can push more in the final weeks of April and May. In the case of Manolas, he has no excuse and came into this match on vacation mode, but he's not physically very strong and he needs to bulk up a bit.

Siovas was lost. He's not accustomed to the role that Anastasiadis demanded of him. But he's big, great in the air, and managed to help keep Chiellini under wraps on set-pieces. My only issue here is that Samaris would have been better suited to this role. Siovas is better as a back-up to Manolas or Sokratis. That said, Siovas is a good third CB if we play deep and try to absorb pressure, but in a high line he's a liability for his lack of athleticism. I think Samaris is more integral to the team due to his ability to organize the team. Samaris also has a good build, is somewhat athletic, half decent on the ball, and plays his club football at a relatively high level. For the half-back position, Samaris is the better fit and it's obvious that's what has suited him the times I've seen him play for Benfica.

I thought Samaris' attempts at vertical passes were not good enough and those giveaways were gifts for Italy. He needs to keep his passes simple and focus on directing his teammates on both offense and defense.

Zeca at right-back is not something we can continue with in every match. It would have been better to have played Zeca in the middle and to have him press Jorginho, Veratti, and Bonucci. He's a great presser of the ball. He wasn't bad at right-back, he even made a very good tackle in the penalty area, but he eventually got caught out of position doing what he does well, press. He's better in the middle, pressing. Going forward, I think Retsos will take over at RB once he's back from his injury and Torosidis will be needed from the bench. Mavrias and Bakakis I don't think will cut it for Greece. Georgios Masouras might be an option by Euro 2020.

On the left, Stafylidis was composed, except on the second goal, and did well considering the circumstances. He and Koutris I think are equally capable of playing for Greece in the LB position. I think Stafylidis has an advantage in terms of age and experience. Koutris just needs a little more time, but he has already proven that he too can play for Greece despite his poor showing against Turkey. Both are better getting forward than when defending.

In the middle we need Tachtsidis. Kourbelis and Zeca to cover ground and harass opponents. I've gone over it enough times why Tachtsidis is needed.

Up top, Donis and Pelkas/Fortounis are the main men. Mitroglou from the bench. Fortounis is our best player, but I think Fortounis is better from the bench only because he can't complete 90 minutes and because he's not pressing opponents as well as other options would. If Fortounis improves his fitness levels and learns to play with fury, like Mantalos once did, he'd be one of the best in the world. Mitroglou is too lazy. We can't afford these two against quality opposition. We need 11 players who can defend. I'd only bring Mitroglou and Fortounis on as subs against a top side. Against weaker or equally measured teams, Fortounis can start, but Pelkas deserves a chance to grow and improve too. Pelkas might be able to overtake Fortounis if he can make it abroad at a good level. Kolovos has to leave Cyprus or else I think we should forget about him. He is a very good player though so long as he trains hard and gives everything. Masouras is a decent alternative who I see as a back up to Donis, but I'm not a particular fan of his. I think he's the most limited of the names I've mentioned, but he can play ball and make things happen no less. Durmishaj might be the new Charisteas given his height, pace, and clinical finishing; he will need time to grow and improve. Koulouris is a goal poacher and not quite up to task to perform for Greece on all levels. Against a weaker side, like Armenia, he might prove to be of perfect use. At a major finals, I think it's better to leave him behind.

[Amorgos]

Now it's very obvious we had trouble bringing the ball under our control. I'm not saying we need to dominate possession, but we need to be able to play the ball to a reasonable degree. The answer to that begins with Tachtsidis and 2-3 more players who can trap a ball and pass it. Is this going to make the problem go completely away? If given a chance, Tachtsidis will move us in the right direction and in time Greece will get there to the level needed. I think his impact will be immediate and it will be felt more effectively in time.

Great post, I have been thinking about this, the part about Tachtsidis and 2-3 players more, who can control a ball and pass... Pelkas is one for example, forgot the out wide stuff, but potentially having Mantalos and Pelkas help more in the middle behind Fourtounis, one of them at least, with natural wingers out wide, would allow us to player better football, heck, start Tachtsi as a CAM, trying things outiside the norm, with a Lamprou, Fetfa, Donis, Koutris, Masouras out wide.

[Amorgos]

He stated many times any player can play anywhere on the pitch.. he is dangerously deluded.

I didn't take that too serious at the time but far out... looking back, that was a massive warning sign.He defended his tactics of Fortounis up front by saying it was the right thing to do because Kosta was the best on field player. I think he was the best on field player, but no way in hell was that the right thing to do

[Don Giovanni]

Fortounis was up top because that was the only position where he could operate freely, without the burden of having to track back to defend (Chiellini and Bonucci did not attempt to break forward beyond set-plays). This was clever in theory, but the execution suffered because Fortounis didn't have the proper support behind in the attack and he himself didn't play to his best standards.

Also Anastasiadis is probably referring to total football, a system that allows players to alternate positions. Siovas got forward at times and even had a dangerous shot on goal. Kourbelis played target man with runs into the Italian penalty area, among other things. I don't think Anastasiadis is necessarily wrong here.

[Amorgos]

For example, I didn't see a high defensive line. We sat deep and Italy only started encountering our players in any numbers mid way through our half of the pitch. The 3 at the back confused our players because it is not a system we are used to - hence why one Italian could score a header when all 3 of our CBs were in position next to him.

As for the highlights for me, forget the players struggle to control the ball - the EPO/Greek coaches don't want those types of players who can trap a football anyway. What was a highlight is we can't take throw ins. We have no idea to take a set piece - no plan.

I am with Reaper here, I didnt see any high line what so ever and havent seen that in both Turkey and Italia matches.

Did we play 3 at the back? I didn't think so, Siovas was played as a 6 and as we saw, a slow Siovas wasnt meant to play at 6 when you have no midfield (Samaris lol) and no wingers to get the ball.

We have not been able to take throw ins for years... one of the things that's driven me crazy is how the guy holding the ball is always so clueless and we lose possession 9/10 times

[Amorgos]

What do you guys think of Postecoglou? He is no world beater but is definitely better than Anastasiadis. Apparently we are trying to get him if things don’t work out. I think Zemen the old Roma coach would be good. He has coached Donis and Tachtsidis before.

Would take Ange over Angelo in a heart beat, he had Australia looking real good before the media forced his hand.

Reaper so thanks to us the media in Greece are giving it to Angelo? haha love it

Dean, I dunno if the Ange story has any truth to it though bud, but I really hope so, he has a winners mentality and will give the Ethniki a real punch it needs, he does not go into games to no lose like we saw yesterday.
Zemen would be great too, as Reaper said, we need Angelo out ASAP

[Amorgos]

Frankly, if Samaris had played as a HB instead of Siovas, I don't think Barella scores that first goal and I don't think he picks up that yellow early on, which means he could have done a better job of shutting down Insigne on the second goal. I also think we'd look more organized if we had a Samaris in that kind of role directing his teammates and helping us maintain our discipline. We need someone on the field to marshal players and he's the one to do that, or at least he will be that player in due time once he can grow into the role and gains trust directing his teammates.

Samaris is rubbish file, I have not seen many Benfica games with him playing so I can not comment or imagine how it's working there for him but for Greece is has been a walking disaster.

He is, IMO, the perfect example of the failed Greek player post 2014 and does not take any control of midfield, I can't remember the last time I was happy with his performance for us and thing we are better off starting Siopis over him. Let others do the passing - aka Tachtsidis with Siopis and Zeca next to him or behind him and Fortounis/Pelkas in front of them

[Don Giovanni]

Samaris doesn't have any quality to speak of on the ball, but he's a good player in terms of organizing the team. He has strong grasp of where players should be to make use of the space when we have the ball and he knows how to pick out danger if he's situated deep enough to have a full view of the field. This is what he does for Benfica.

[Dean97]

Samaris is rubbish file, I have not seen many Benfica games with him playing so I can not comment or imagine how it's working there for him but for Greece is has been a walking disaster.

He is, IMO, the perfect example of the failed Greek player post 2014 and does not take any control of midfield, I can't remember the last time I was happy with his performance for us and thing we are better off starting Siopis over him. Let others do the passing - aka Tachtsidis with Siopis and Zeca next to him or behind him and Fortounis/Pelkas in front of them

I believe Samaris is useless. I don’t know why I believed in him in the first place. I was one of many defending him for his average and shit performances. Now I don’t care anymore, I have given up hope with him. How long do we have to wait for him to be effective? Anastasiadis thought by playing 2 DMs and a CB behind them would shut down Italy’s attack. In fact it did the opposite. Also even worse they didn’t help us in attack. Siopis is better help in attack than the 3 that played I midfield. Samaris, Siovas and Kourbelis are CBs. They can’t beat players in midfield and are useless win clever balls. You need to have good ball skills and cleverness to play midfield. Also some aggressiveness. (Pitbull)

Tachtsidis, Siopis and Zeca should be the midfield. With Donis and Pelkas ahead of them. Fortounis can be useful (off the bench).

[Don Giovanni]

Either Mantalos (when in form) or Kourbelis is better suited to start in the midfield alongside someone like Tachtsidis (maybe Bouchalakis) and Zeca. For me, Zeca is the only one assured of a starting role. These are more most accomplished players for these roles. Siopis looks to be a decent second-stringer.

With all that said, we lack quality in the midfield. Much remains to be seen if Mantalos will go the EPL and Kourbelis to Series A, moves that may happen for them this summer and moves they need in order to reach a higher level with Greece. I highly doubt Siopis will ever reach that level of play week in, week out. For Greece to improve, we need more players based abroad playing at a high level and we need to identify a core who can be allowed to develop some chemistry between them the few times they get together.

[Amorgos]

Yes. I forgot Bouchalakis who I think is more effective than Samaris too

[Reaper]

This raises an interesting point. ^^

There is a big problem in Greece where because most the team is shit - players slightly above others are dismissed under the umbrella 'our players are shit, what difference does it make.'

For me - looking at the last few clueless lineups from our coach - I feel better players have be left out and no one cared because of the heavy fact that the majority of our players are crap anyway. For example:

At CB - Risvanis > Valerianos. Obvious - but little discussed. Risvanis should have been called up the minute we were running short on fit CBs.
At RB - Torosidis > Mavrias/Zeca. Not a massive fan of Torosidis as he has regressed over the years as is natural, but to believe - for one second that Mavrias is better is wrong.
At CM - Bouxalakis > Siovas. Doesn't even need explaining.
At LB - Koutris > Staf. Understand this one may cause controversy as he is immensely popular, but for me it is a black and white argument - he is a shit defender and always has been.
GK - Vlachodimos > Barkas/Pasxa.

Now the players I listed are not world beaters or inspiring, but they are clearly superior to the hacks the coach artificially forced in.

The saddest thing is that if we beat Armenia at home - a team ranked over 60 places behind us - this will give more life to the Anastasiadis experiment. As stated, the only crumb of hope is that the Greek media has smelt the idiocy on our coach early. We already have writers taking apart is ridiculous tactics the same way they did Skibbe in his last months. It took them years to build the confidence to criticise Skibbe in public. Anastasiadis is already there after 3 games.

[Dean97]

We all agree of who should be in and who should be out. We all are on the same wavelength when it comes to how to play the game. We know who’s shit and who isn’t. So why is there a big misunderstanding with people who are supposed to be the professionals such as the coaches, media etc?

Why does it seem that we know more than coaches like Anastasiadis and Skibbe? Yet these guys have jobs. It’s crazy. We should be the coaching staff more like it lol. We have more of an idea. Apparently Bakasetas will start against Armenia. Where is the rubbish bin so I can vomit.

Also forgot to mention, if Tachtsidis was to be central of our plans then we would need to have the right players and the right system around him so he can be effective. He is more creative than Samaris and definitely more headstrong but he still has his limitations.

[Reaper]

Why does it seem that we know more than coaches like Anastasiadis and Skibbe? Yet these guys have jobs. It’s crazy.

Kakocracy

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kakocracy

[Dean97]

Reaper what are your honest views on Tachtsidis?