The John van't Schip replacement thread

[Don Giovanni]

Anyone catch this? Van't Schip had a private word with the Olympiacos players after the Kosovo game. It's perhaps not impossible to imagine what was said. I can only guess he tried to calm any concerns or fears player may have of being left out due to the kind of behind the scenes politics that is customary in Greek football, but there's no mistaking the fact there is a certain element of disdain and distrust which has grown between Marinakis and the EPO. Marinakis made the quite the show back in late July in front of representatives from UEFA and FIFA, not to mention the Greek vice-minister for sport.

[Reaper]

I think VS leaving out Masouras was bizarre and raised eyebrows across Greece. Also Kourbelis instead of Bouxa was bitter. These decisions will have consequences as well as his unhealthy fascination with Bakasetas and Staf.

Olympiacos in Europe this season was one of the best campaigns I have ever seen by any Greek team in decades. VS must have been watching something else but the Olympiacos media will not forget. These last 2 NT games for me undid a lot of the previous good work and I suspect caps were sold by the EPO.

[Kojak]

the Olympiacos media will not forget.

That for me is the biggest problem, the fact that we are talking about "Olympiacos Media" (or PAOK media , AEK Media etc etc) when it comes to the NT.

[Don Giovanni]

Tsimikas stood out for Olympiacos in Europe, but the other Greeks were not nearly as impressive. If van't Schip had left him out, maybe Reaper you would have had a point, but Masouras was a bit part player in Europe who came on as sub at best. Van't Schip used him in exactly the same capacity for Greece. I see no foul here. Also Mantalos was exceptional for Greece before the lock down and had every right to continue in that role. Against Kosovo, Fortounis started instead of either player. To be honest, Fortounis was terrible. Mantalos and Masouras were both negligible. All three have to do better for Greece when they get the chance to play. They all need to play the way Mantalos did against Finland, that's the standard they have to meet.

As for Bouchalakis, maybe he deserved a chance after the Slovenia game given that Zeca and Kourbelis didn't play well enough. But I will add that Zeca was more impressive in Europe than Bouchalakis. Zeca has better familiarity with Kourbelis, something which truth be told didn't really play out on the field and really seems to only hold in theory. The two are more aggressive and better defensively too. Bouchalakis is better on the ball, but he's not that great. And he has had chances with Greece under van't Schip. To date he hasn't impressed. None of them have. No matter which way we look at it, there's no doubt our central midfield needs better options. Anyone who thinks Bouchalakis is the answer is probably misleading themselves, but I would be more than happy to be proven wrong.

[Reaper]

Reaper you would have had a point, but Masouras was a bit part player in Europe who came on as sub at best.

Masouras played a good amount of minutes in europe. He was integral. He is vastly superior to a Mandalos for example shoehorned into the wing.

Bouxa as stated countless times is better than Kourbelis. However he is by no means a good midfielder.

The true crime however was dropping Fetfa (assist today in the league opener) and Tzolis - who cant stop scoring - in fact just scored again 2 mins ago in the league opener.

[Brklyngrk]

Masouras alternated between bench and starting for OLY during the last Euro campaign. While he is no doubt the better winger, Mandalos played quite well there the last few times the NT played. Fetfa being dropped is not something new, I rate him as a player but many coaches have questioned his work ethic. He also was late for a meeting, he broke the rules. Tziolis was never dropped, he was ADDED to the team for the first time. He will get his chance.

[Dean97]

Who knows what going on behind the scenes... we can only assume. As far the midfielders we have, no is the answer in my opinion. Bouchalakis is better on the ball but doesn’t offer nearly enough to be considered the ‘answer’. Kourbelis and Zeca are just there for chasing down and being aggressive. They are not there to create plays and thread in killer balls. They are there to shut down and provide cover for the defence.

If I were coach I would find 2 CMs or CDMs who are more rounded in there game. Players who are equally effective in defence and attack. Our inability to score enough goals are due to the limitations we have at CM. The strikers are to blame aswell but not as much as the service. I would drop Fortounis in at CM but he isn’t aggressive or defensively competent enough to play there. He’s too weak aswell. But he has what we need there in terms of attacking, skill, passing and creativity. So he can’t play there...

I’m hoping a guy like Androutsos who has a bit of everything and works his ass off to play in that CM/CDM role. He should be trained more there and develop more as a CM. Not at CAM or LW. He is very well balanced I think. Guys like Serpezis, Alexandropoulos, Vasiliadis, and Androutsos should be looked at for that role. They might not be established players but I think they can offer more going forward with the ball.

I’m not saying that they are the answer l, they could be just as useless, but I’m saying the coach should be finding someone for that role that has the qualities and attributes needed for the role.

[Amorgos]

That for me is the biggest problem, the fact that we are talking about "Olympiacos Media" (or PAOK media , AEK Media etc etc) when it comes to the NT.

100% this is how an old clica begins and people like JVS, who has done alot for a team that looked so lost will want out

[Amorgos]

The true crime however was dropping Fetfa (assist today in the league opener) and Tzolis - who cant stop scoring - in fact just scored again 2 mins ago in the league opener.

Very true... Fetfa offers offence no one else does, has one of his best seasons in years, and gets no call up. The whole late for a meeting is over done now, ok he did it he paid the penalty, does not mean he has to be excluded forever because of one fucken meeting he was late to!

Tzolis will have to feature soon enough, his finishing skills are great

[Dean97]

Very true... Fetfa offers offence no one else does, has one of his best seasons in years, and gets no call up. The whole late for a meeting is over done now, ok he did it he paid the penalty, does not mean he has to be excluded forever because of one fucken meeting he was late to!

Tzolis will have to feature soon enough, his finishing skills are great

I agree 100%. Great article by the way.

http://hellasfooty.blogspot.com/2020...hniki.html?m=1

[Amorgos]

Thanks pal, much appreciated

[Don Giovanni]

Limnios has deservedly won his place. If Fetfatzidis were in the team, he'd be in there as a backup.

Mantalos won his place through sheer grit and determination. He worked and hustled his tail off. He made assists too. He deserved his place in the team. He may not be the most gifted, but he worked for it. Besides, Giannoulis was the one who played more like the left-winger and got into the more advanced positions. He played crosses into the box. Mantalos moved centrally and deeper into the midfield quite a lot against Slovenia. And when he got subbed on against Kosovo, it was in place of Koulouris, so Greece played a strikerless system.

Same goes for Bakasetas who was in excellent form for his club and country up until the lockdown. They have set an example for others, that's why Bakasetas was given the armband. Plus he can shoot the ball from distance. He has an eye for goal reminiscent to that of Lyberopoulos.

Masouras isn't a superstar. He's not Georgatos or Tsartas. If he's on the bench, I don't see any reason to question van't Schip. Besides, Fortounis, who is arguably the best footballer in Greece, did get the start over Mantalos against Kosovo, yet he was dreadful, the worst player on the pitch. Masouras got minutes and did nothing with them. And whose to say is Masouras would have started if Tsimikas had been available. Originally reports suggested both would start. Van't Schip instead went with Mantalos and Giannoulis, players who had experienced together and have played really well for Greece. In fast Giannoulis is playing so well I think he should take over our left-wing position and Tsimikas should play at left-back.

[Dean97]

Van’t Schip should be telling Mantalos to go in centrally and deeper in the midfield more often. Having Giannoulis always bombing forward on the left is making us look effective also. Mantalos isn’t the greatest player but he can offer things others can’t in the middle. His technique and work rate is needed in the middle. Every time he went central we looked more fluid. The more someone like him drives with ball through the middle the more dangerous we will look.

[Reaper]

Wonder if VS saw the cup final? Bakakis run ragged - gave away one of the most ridiculous pens I have seen. Mandalos with his elbows again - could not make anything happen - even with an oly back 4 including Bruno and a 35 year old rarely played Torosidis who retired from football after the game. Fortounis got a few minutes. Masouras should have scored twice and won the pen. Bouxa was decent for 1 half - fairly crap second half. AEK keeper should have done better with the goal. Oly scythed down the middle of the AEK defence a few times to get 1 on 1s with their keeper.

[Don Giovanni]

Let's not overdo this Masouras thing. He's OK, but he's no Limnios, he's not the best footballer in all of Greece. I'm fairly certain that Masouras would have started had Tsimikas been fit and available. Also Fortounis is better than him and Mantalos was nothing short of Greece's MVP before the lock down. So in my mind there is nothing wrong with van't Schip is doing.

And you mentioned that Masouras had two chances to score in the Greek cup final, one of those chances he totally bottled. He had loads of space and time, but he chose to take his chance quickly and he hit it right at the keeper. Fetfatzidis to this day gets blasted for his miss against AEK, but in my opinion this was an even worse miss, the only difference is Olympiacos won this game. Bakakis didn't drape himself in glory either, but Masouras is probably glad he got the penalty because if Bakakis stayed on his feet and kept the pressure on, I'm not convinced Masouras would have found el-Arabi with a simple square pass. Masouras did well in the end to win the penalty, and he deserves a lot of credit for that, but he has Bakakis to thank to some extent.

Let's not make him out to be more than he is. We all know Olympiacos can find better. Mirallas, Campbell, Rieira, etc. We all know the quality and big names Olympiacos can sign to play in Masouras' position. And then what for Masouras? He's on the bench or on loan at Atromitos. How many times did we see that happen with other players, some much more talented than him? He's not a special talent.

It bothers me to see Limnios get the chances he's getting at PAOK and the national team, yet Fetfatizidis couldn't get these chances so easily. And I used to jump up and down bitching that Greek football will suffer if we don't cater to the development of our players, if Greece continues to play unimaginative football where all we knew was to win 1-0. The Greek league is now barely in the top 20 of Europe. The national side is even worse off than I could have ever imagined. It's frustrating that for years Greek fans were convinced we had to play football in the most boring way and with players who were not talented, but simply worked their tail off and were tactically well setup defensively. I think it's important players work hard and that we defend well, but there comes a point where Salpingidis is simply past it and it would be nice if the coach put a little more faith in someone like Limnios, or that time Fetfatzidis.

We would never have seen that dribble from Limnios against Slovenia if the coach were Rehhagel or Santos. Everything has changed under van't Schip. This coach is a god send for Greek football. I thought the EPO was making another crooked deal with this manager, but I have to give them credit. They were mulling Lucien Favre a while back, they passed on him, this time when the chance came for another Lucien Favre, they took it. It was a risky move, but it's paying off massively. Let's not kid ourselves, van't Schip could be coaching the Netherlands tomorrow if they wanted it and he wanted it to happen.