The John van't Schip replacement thread

[Dean97]

We cant utter the phrase "we cannot change coach again" because of the quality of manager... I get what your saying but over all there is no long terms fix to this and its a very short sighted comment, so what are we gona do if we hire another guy that used Bakasetas? Sack him, next! and continue the cycle? That's ridiculous

Look what happened with Ranieri the "high caliber" coach, granted he was not given long enough to make his mark but JVS has done something he couldn't, we are finally playing good football and taking it to teams, we have not done this in years and you cannot take that away from him.

Whilst I totally agree about Bakasetas, its nothing different from the past 10 managers who have had a bizzar infatuation with a player we all want desperately out of the team and certain players in the team.

Most of what your wishing for his big name coaches and with the payouts to coaches by EPO based on what you would be doing also, we can not afford it.

JVS will see is through the 2022 WC Qualifiers weather we like it or not and I think the stupidest thing we could do is sack him with a pay out after the turn around we saw. It's now in JVS's hands weather he fixes his mistakes and if he doesn't and we go nowhere near qualification (lets see firstly what group we get) he will prob be gone but you all need some long terms view, Rome was not built in a day and swapping and changing coaches all the time is NOT the answer.

Another thing to remember guys, even if we fix Baka, and the RB spot, is the striker position where we are pretty thin in and until someone starts smacking goals in you will find us in a similar position where we cant get the vital goal to win the key matches.

I agree with a lot of things your saying. Especially about changing coaches. We shouldn’t be changing coaches unless we bring in a high caliber coach that is affordable that we can trust. We probably will never get a line up we are going to agree with. But this leads me to your last paragraph. The service hasn’t been the greatest to our strikers. This is Bakasetas, Kourbelis, Bouchalakis and to some extent Limnios fault.

We mostly play target men like Pavlidis and Giakoumakis who aren’t as agile quick as say Fountas or Donis. They just mostly stay up top expecting the ball to be played at there feet. They also don’t get involved in the build up or make runs in behind. Pavlidis was hardly involved against Moldova. Giakoumakis didn’t show much against Slovenia. Both these guys are scoring in the Netherlands.

They are at fault for our lack of scoring goals but the service is to blame just as much as our strikers.

[Amorgos]

Our media guys have been useless for many years now... it's a shame about this as it would be great to have some of these put to him, especially 2 & 3

In regards to Mavrias, for me he did well but JVS stuffed up playing him in the Slovenia game where he was clearly dead tired after 70 mins vs Cyprus and 90 with Moldova in a matter of days

[Reaper]

We cant utter the phrase "we cannot change coach again" because of the quality of manager... I get what your saying but over all there is no long terms fix to this and its a very short sighted comment, so what are we gona do if we hire another guy that used Bakasetas? Sack him, next! and continue the cycle? That's ridiculous

I agree, but no one is suggesting that. I am suggesting we give a coach of some note time. Rather than a revolving door of shit.

Look what happened with Ranieri the "high caliber" coach, granted he was not given long enough to make his mark but JVS has done something he couldn't, we are finally playing good football and taking it to teams, we have not done this in years and you cannot take that away from him.

Make his mark? He was given 4 games...

Whilst I totally agree about Bakasetas, its nothing different from the past 10 managers who have had a bizzar infatuation with a player we all want desperately out of the team and certain players in the team.

True, but again, lets get a string of decent coaches first. We have not had that since 2014..

Most of what your wishing for his big name coaches and with the payouts to coaches by EPO based on what you would be doing also, we can not afford it.

Michel and Schuster were not expensive. Michel was turned down because Karagounis didnt want him and Schuster didn't work out because EPO wanted to control his decisions. Both had already completed financial terms are were in the final interview. I would have been happy to give either time whatever their decisions were. They are proven, unlike JVS, Skibbe, Tsanas, Anastasiadis and freinds.

JVS will see is through the 2022 WC Qualifiers weather we like it or not and I think the stupidest thing we could do is sack him with a pay out after the turn around we saw. It's now in JVS's hands weather he fixes his mistakes and if he doesn't and we go nowhere near qualification (lets see firstly what group we get) he will prob be gone but you all need some long terms view, Rome was not built in a day and swapping and changing coaches all the time is NOT the answer.

Thing is, we have given shit coaches time before and it makes no difference. Also, for the sake of the player's development it is best not to expose them to JVS.

Another thing to remember guys, even if we fix Baka, and the RB spot, is the striker position where we are pretty thin in and until someone starts smacking goals in you will find us in a similar position where we cant get the vital goal to win the key matches.

The problem is the team is not making enough chances against nothing opposition. I think our strikers are nothing special but I would like them to miss 3 tap ins against a Kosovo before writing them off. Greece simply does not create enough.

[aek66]

I agree Ranieri was not given enough time but I want to make another point.

1/ The quality of managers coming in has not been high enough to utter the phrase “we cannot change coach again..” Look who Greece has employed.. Markarian, Skibbe, Tsanas, Anastasiadis.. JVS.... That is therefore like saying: “what is the point of buying a new car? - They all break down anyway.. look how many we have had.. a 1985 Skoda, a 1.1 litre Fiat, a Citroën C3, a Dacia 1300... a Lada Niva...” The EPO has recycled a lot of shit managers. If we had had a Schuster, then Michel, then a Bielsa, then a Setien, then a Roberto Martinez and we were still stuck with teams built around rejects like Tzavellas and Bakasetas - then fine - I would not argue a change.

2/ If any team in the world with aspirations could reach a higher ceiling with Bakasetas as captain I would like to see it. In football in 2020 you can't afford to have even one passenger in the team. VS is tied to Bakasetas. This is the ceiling.

3/ Greece cannot settle. Greece cannot say - “we must keep this guy because although we can't top a group with Kosovo, Slovenia, Moldova which JVS had ages to prepare for, although we have LBs as CBs and sometimes as CMs even, although VS is married to players who are not international quality like Staf/ Tzavellas/ Bakasetas, although he has been unable to make peace with our most talented players like Manolas and Fetfa, although we had games under VS where we only had 1 shot on target all 90 etc etc ad infinitum... we must keep him because at least the team is attacking unlike under Anastasiadis..” VS had his chance imo. Blew it. I would get in a Michel.

yeah, no arguments. by 2005, i was clear to me that EPO had absolutely no intent on spending monies won by the NT. they were forced to spend a fraction for womens football.

it's clear right there, why spend on a manager when you have no money - when you didn't spend anything with over $100 million to play with. i remember how proud adidas and s. korea were to announce their partnership, while epo told adidas to keep the numbers private.

the football academies run by the french (fff) and the talent they have produced. i remember posters arguing with me that it's not epo's responsibility to develop talent. ok, let's rely on panionios, giannina and xanthi. didn't really pay off from 2004-2020.

[Reaper]

100%^^ The EPO has gone out of its way to damage the Greek NT and to fair, who could blame them considering the press refuses to scrutinize them.

I spose all it comes down to now for me is one question. Has Greece reached its ceiling with a team captained by Bakasetas? If the answer is no then logically JVS should stay. If the answer is yes, he should go now. It is as simple as that.

[Amorgos]

Make his mark? He was given 4 games...

Which kinda puts a back flip in your point, look at what JVS did in his first games with Greece last year, and that was a team that came from playing some of the poorest football on the planet vs a team that came from a good World Cup campaign.

The problem is the team is not making enough chances against nothing opposition. I think our strikers are nothing special but I would like them to miss 3 tap ins against a Kosovo before writing them off. Greece simply does not create enough.

Reaper, we are creating more chances than we have the last 7 years... sorry file but some of your points do not add up. The team has not played with so much intensity and direct attack for close to a decade

[Ethnikos]

Which kinda puts a back flip in your point, look at what JVS did in his first games with Greece last year, and that was a team that came from playing some of the poorest football on the planet vs a team that came from a good World Cup campaign.


Reaper, we are creating more chances than we have the last 7 years... sorry file but some of your points do not add up. The team has not played with so much intensity and direct attack for close to a decade

you’re right we are creating more. But how much does that help when bakasetas is captain and tzavellas is playing over Manolas etc. There’s way too many questionable call ups and lineup selections and it will continually happen because he did it for the entire qualifying campaign and surprise surprise, we failed to qualify over Slovenia. Bring in an actual proven coach aren’t you guys tired of this? Almost seven years of skata. I think we’re giving Jvs a lot of credit for making us mediocre from garbage. We’ve already won a major tournament and that’s what you want to settle for? Second place to Slovenia in a game that would’ve majorly helped our wc qualifying hopes... Heck, he’s got a better batch of Greek players to pick from then many coaches before

[Amorgos]

I’m tired of us playing ridiculous football for so many years, that’s what I’m tired of.

Yes I’m worried about JVS’s moves going forward but I really don’t think EPO are gona go get a 8th coach in as many years to start another new page for the team.

We saw the same stuff with each other coach, but you guys keep waiting for a “big name” to come in.

In regards to better batch of Greek players, to some extent but not really, we don’t even have a striker to rely on now and that’s one of our biggest problems compounded by Bakasetas so this is where we need JVS to work on and find solutions, if he can’t he will be gone in due time

[Reaper]

Reaper, we are creating more chances than we have the last 7 years... sorry file but some of your points do not add up. The team has not played with so much intensity and direct attack for close to a decade

We are not making a plethora of chances. We have gone games under JVS where we had 1 or 2 shots on target in 94 minutes against shit opposition. That is not only down to the strikers. You are overestimating our creativity because the team is playing more attacking.

So, back to the point at hand. Answer this:

Has Greece reached its ceiling with a team captained by Bakasetas? If the answer is no then logically JVS should stay. If the answer is yes, he should go now. It is as simple as that.

[Reaper]

Heck, he’s got a better batch of Greek players to pick from then many coaches before

This is very true.. but also a coach's job is not only selecting players - it is building bridges with players - not creating vendettas the way JVS does. The best coach is one who trusts his players and then is trusted back. JVS was putting wing backs as CBs on their debuts due to the vendettas he can't keep up with removing 3 tried and tested international quality CBs. That alone is worth being sacked for.

[Amorgos]

We are not making a plethora of chances. We have gone games under JVS where we had 1 or 2 shots on target in 94 minutes against shit opposition. That is not only down to the strikers. You are overestimating our creativity because the team is playing more attacking.

So, back to the point at hand. Answer this:

Has Greece reached its ceiling with a team captained by Bakasetas? If the answer is no then logically JVS should stay. If the answer is yes, he should go now. It is as simple as that.

I am not overestimating anything and your stats are wrong.

Slovenia 7 shots on target
Moldova 6 shots on target
Kosovo 4 shots on target
Moldova 10 shots on target
Kosovo 5 shots on target
Slovenia 5 shots on target
Finland 7 shots on target
Armenia 6 shots on target

Dont get me started on the shots off target.

As for Baka, there is more to everything than just him, potentially yes but as per every other coach, if we sack them because of 1 selection we would be changing all the time. JVS needs to understand that he is not the answer, but the above stats is hopeful for me, I have seen us play key qualifiers with literally 1 shot at goal.

[Amorgos]

This is very true.. but also a coach's job is not only selecting players - it is building bridges with players - not creating vendettas the way JVS does. The best coach is one who trusts his players and the is trusted back.

This I heavily agree with

[Reaper]

I am not overestimating anything and your stats are wrong.

Dunno man.. I think you are overestimating our attacking prowess and I think my statement that we have gone whole games with 1 or 2 shots on target under VS is correct..



I think vs Italy was another..

[Reaper]

As for Baka, there is more to everything than just him, potentially yes but as per every other coach, if we sack them because of 1 selection we would be changing all the time. JVS needs to understand that he is not the answer, but the above stats is hopeful for me, I have seen us play key qualifiers with literally 1 shot at goal.

Forget JVS then. With Bakasetas as a 10 and the Greek captain, has Greece reached its ceiling or is their potential to do a lot better with Bakasetas as 10?

[Brklyngrk]

I think he should be given a shot. We are playing better and with much more urgency. I remember watching previous games and our guys would just walk around. The three games you posted above, I do not believe are a reflection of how the team is doing currently. The Finland/Italy game, it was when he was first named coach. If you compare that game to the game we played them before in the same cycle, you would see a huge improvement. The Austria game is a little misleading as it was a friendly and we were winning the entire game up until the end.