The John van't Schip replacement thread

[Dean97]

I really hope there is a plan. I don’t want EPO involved anywhere near the team. They are the reason for our downfall for the past 5 years. I don’t want to be fooled again this time around as we’ve had 5 different coaches and I thought from an optimistic point of view and as a passionate fan as I am that we would get somewhere with one of these coaches. I truly want the best for Greek football and Greek players. I hope this time around it truly works out as JVS says all the right things. Skibbe and Anastasiadis were there for a pay check as it seems. This guy has stated he knows what he got himself into and I hope he is using this as an ultimate challenge for his career so he can achieve something instead of the pay check. Time will tell and I hope we are all wrong about this guy and he turns to be something great for this team.

[Don Giovanni]

Skibbe was limited to picking Tziolis and Tzavellas. Without them, he had no control over the locker room. But Skibbe's real purpose with Greece was to help usher in a new era of grassroots development, much like he had done in Germany.

Anastasiadis lost the dressing room with his Alpha Ethniki credentials and kick-about approach. I thought for the Nations League he was a decent interim coaching option, but for the European qualifiers he needed to step things up and he didn't. He was too stubborn in his ways and it was unfortunate Basinas couldn't get him to come to grips with the task at hand. Maybe he was weary of making the same mistakes Karagounis had made with Markarian. I think the hiring of Anastasiadis was more a matter of favoritism to someone PAOK and the board wanted to reward (that's pure speculation on my part). It's obvious his opinions are valued by some on the board. He would have been useful as a technical consultant, but as a coach he was out of his depth.

Van't Schip isn't as proven nor as experienced a manager as Rehhagel was, which makes his hiring at a time like this appear somewhat underwhelming, but lately there has been a trend favorable towards these types of managers in Europe who aren't necessarily that experienced. We saw exactly that with Ajax in the hiring of Erik ten Hag, who only made name for himself with Ajax's run last season. Interestingly enough, Van't Schip had coached FC Twente (back in 2001/02) when Ten Hag was a player of theirs.

I have to say, Van't Schip did impress me with the way he managed to get the team more organized at the back and his comments suggests he grasps our problems. From what I also read, Mitroglou had agree with the coach to sit out the last couple of games. In that context, it's harsh to criticize the coach for leaving Mitroglou out, but Mitroglou should be putting Greece first and Van't Schip needs to make a point of that with his players. That is easier said than done. Already I have the feeling Sokratis may put his club football ahead of his international duties. Given Arsenal's own struggles, I think that's understandable, but Van't Schip has to push him on.

I think at this stage we need to continue keeping things organized at the back, try to push Italy for a result, or at least perform out of our skins even if we don't get the result, and build from there. If our performance against Italy is a repeat of what we saw under Anastasiadis, then in my view Van't Schip can't continue and Dellas would need to be brought in.

[Dean97]

We are lacking pure leaders. That’s the reason we haven’t been doing so well the last 5 years. We need to start playing players who want to work with the team. We have a lot of individuals. Sokratis, Kourbelis and Zeca are somewhat leaders. Apart from that we have no one else to lead and set the example or communicate effectively. All we should do is get players with high work rates, high determination and technical ability.

[Dean97]

https://fmdataba.com/19/s/4729/john-van-t-schip/

As you can see Vant Schip is great in working with the young guys and has great tactical knowledge. I think he should be the head of scout or something instead of a national team manager. He’s not good at man management something Santos was good at. Hopefully he can help the young guys come through and be more settled in the NT. He works better with the young prospects, better than the more experienced players. As a coach I don’t think he is made for it but I do hope he somehow helps this team and the youngsters in the right direction. He clearly favours youth as he has said youth will be the first priority in his selections.

[Don Giovanni]

In the last two games, it was Manolas shouting at players and getting on their backs when we had problems. He took the ball himself from 40 yards out and almost scored against Liechtenstein. If that's not leadership, I don't know what is.

And our problems wasn't a lack of leadership, it was a flat offense.

Bouchalakis plays too many safe balls. He looked like Tziolis on the ball. The one decent ball he played forward was to Koulouris against Finland, but even that was not special (Kourbelis played Fortounis a better ball for the assist when we won against Liechtenstein). Samaris played one good ball wide to Tsimikas against Liechtenstein, but Tsimikas' bad touch put the ball out of play in what was a golden chance for Greece. That was it as far as the quality of our passes out of the middle went. The one goal we scored was the result of Koulouris' mishit shot and Masouras making the run to sweep it up into the net.

Kolovos was very poor against Finland. He couldn't trap the ball, he couldn't pass, he kept killing our forward momentum. Vrousaj could not turn his markers against Liechtenstein. These two players forgot how to play football once the responsibility and burden of creating chances for us fell on them. The best moments Vrousaj had was when he scuffed his shots. He has no mettle, no experience for this level to put those chances away. We're playing Italy next month and our coach clearly had no ideas as to who could fill Fortounis' shoes so far. We need Donis or Fetfatzidis to somewhat make up for the loss of Fortounis, but I'm not sure Van't Schip will do that. I think he believes Mantalos is the player for that role and he'd be sadly mistaken if he thinks that. Mantalos can compliment an offense, but we can't build one around him.

[Amorgos]

https://fmdataba.com/19/s/4729/john-van-t-schip/
He’s not good at man management something Santos was good at.

Not sure what makes you say this?

He’s actually a good manager in that regard and will speak to players 1:1 about where they are at and what needs to happen going forward. Take the Mitroglou situation for example

[Don Giovanni]

I read a report that Nastos and Vellios will get call ups after impressing in the Atromitos-PAOK match last week. Although I'm a fan of Vellios, he's not pacey and although he's strong, he's not as strong Mitroglou. If we see Mitroglou left off the team again it would be a mistake.

Natsos is a right-back, but I don't think he's ready for the men's team nor a definitively superior alternative to Bakakis.

[Dean97]

Not sure what makes you say this?

He’s actually a good manager in that regard and will speak to players 1:1 about where they are at and what needs to happen going forward. Take the Mitroglou situation for example

Yes hopefully he does more of this going forward. I just meant he isn’t known for being an effective man manager but he can develop that moving forward. I just hope he motivates the players to the point where they give everything on the field and nothing less.

[Dean97]

I read a report that Nastos and Vellios will get call ups after impressing in the Atromitos-PAOK match last week. Although I'm a fan of Vellios, he's not pacey and although he's strong, he's not as strong Mitroglou. If we see Mitroglou left off the team again it would be a mistake.

Natsos is a right-back, but I don't think he's ready for the men's team nor a definitively superior alternative to Bakakis.

I don’t know but Natsos has impressed me the few times I’ve seen him play. He rightfully should call up players that stand out. And both have stood out.

[Don Giovanni]

Another player Van't Schip is looking at is Ajax U21 striker Kaj Sierhuis. He's not Greek, but he was born in Greece because his father, Cornelius 'Cock' Sierhuis, was finance director for a Dutch media holding company that bought a controlling stake into AEK Athens along with ENIC, the current owners of Tottenham. He was chairman/president of AEK Athens for almost two years.

[Don Giovanni]

https://www.sport24.gr/football/ella...h.5611265.html

Van't Schip gave an interview to Nova. I find much of what he had to say is agreeable. Obviously he couldn't go into too many details, but he spoke plainly about our problems and it's clear he has a good grasp of them.

He touched on the fact that bad results have dampened the spirit of the team. That there may be problems between the players and the management/administrative side and/or maybe between the players themselves (I think we saw this in our last game when Fetfatzidis and Sokratis refused to play Bakakis the ball). He tried to avoid being definitive in his answer on this matter, obviously it's a touchy subject, but he makes it clear enough that he gets the gist of our problems and he isn't trying to downplay anything.

He mentioned that Mitroglou, Torosidis and Samaris were left out due to a lack of starts. He says Manolas and Sokratis aren't being excluded for good and that an assessment of who will continue will be made in September when we begin the Nations League again. He pointed out that there needs to be more competition for places, to expand the player pool and give players actual time on the pitch to assess his options better and this is the real basis for the changes.

He knows it's a risk to make changes like this in face of two tricky matches, but we need to begin the process of change and try to succeed in doing so.

In terms of what playing style he's looking for the team to adopt, he mentioned that Italy stopped playing catenaccio and England do more than just cross (and head) the ball. He added we need to have a proper attacking approach too, not just a defensive approach.

He noted that things have changed since Otto's time. We can't just pick players from a few clubs and who know each other better, which would have helped (to create better chemistry).

He was attracted to the job because of the challenge it presented and because of the opportunity he would have to help shape a new generation of players. He and his wife also like life in Greece.

[Dean97]

I really like how committed he is. The most committed coach I’ve seen. I’ve been wanting for a long time for a coach to bring in the new generation and it seem he is good at it and that’s what he’s going to do. I hope realises that our midfield is our biggest problem. I hope he understands that 2 DMs doesn’t help. Hopefully he can look into Vasiliadis from Paderborn who apparently is impressing.

Our 2nd problem is RB. Should be experimenting here. Kitsiou is in very good form in Turkey and Masouras is fast with great potential. Natsos deserves a look too. Bakakis is unreliable defensively. Slightly better in attack as the same can be said for Stafylidis.

I also like how he wants to challenge himself. He knows what he got himself into and clearly outlines what the problems are. The only thing I question is his ability and experience as a manager. Hopefully things will turn out better than expected.

I also remember in games where our players didn’t want to pass to certain players because of a lack of trust in their teammates. Eg. Fortounis didn’t want to pass to Pelkas at times. This has to change we need to play as a team and no one is above the team. I agree with what Amorgos said a week ago about how we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes and it’s true.

We cant say that Manolas or Sokratis damage the team because we don’t know. Where not physically there to know. Also the report on where Manolas demanded changes in the coaching staff could have been true, but who’s going to change things for the better anyway. I personally like how Manolas and Sokratis made the effort to create change because if it wasn’t for them who would’ve done it.

Now if they bring negativity to the dressing room every time they are there that’s different. We don’t need that. And if that’s the case they shouldn’t be involved anymore. It can make things worse. By the way Retsos and Mavropanos should be the new partnership going forward. Give them an entire campaign. That’s if they can stay injury free.

[Don Giovanni]

I don't recall Fortounis not passing to Pelkas, but I remember one incident where Fortounis tried to play a one-two inside the area, but Pelkas opted to have a go himself and that selfishness singled him out for criticism as a result.

It's very hard to say who should play at RB. No one really leaps from the page. Van't Schip generally plays with a 4-3-3 formation, so he might continue searching for options unless he goes against his normal inclinations and plays a back three.

I think Sokratis is getting older and more cynical about Greece's prospects. The inept management of the national team has only made it worse.

Van't Schip may prove himself to be a better manager than perhaps I'm willing to give him credit, but I can't shake the feeling that if Fortounis remained fit, we might have been in second place right now even with Anastasiadis as the manager and then come December, we could have hired someone better for the job. Making due with the cheap option of Anastasiadis may not have been that bad a decision if it meant hiring a quality manager who might have considered the job if it were only for 6 months including two months to work closely with the group.

[Pao4ever]

Fortounis is being seriously overated by some here. He's a decent player but nothing more. He played in the 2-3 in Greece vs Armenia and we lost. His passing leaves a lot to be desired out of the position that he plays and isn't nearly as good as he has to be creatively to be a good no 10. A 34 year old Valbuena is more shifty, creative and clever than him and it isn't even close. No one deserves to walk in as a starter on this team right now and that includes Fortounis, Sokratis and Manolas.

[Dean97]

Fortounis is being seriously overated by some here. He's a decent player but nothing more. He played in the 2-3 in Greece vs Armenia and we lost. His passing leaves a lot to be desired out of the position that he plays and isn't nearly as good as he has to be creatively to be a good no 10. A 34 year old Valbuena is more shifty, creative and clever than him and it isn't even close. No one deserves to walk in as a starter on this team right now and that includes Fortounis, Sokratis and Manolas.

By world football standards he is average. By Greek football standards he’s our best player. He’s no Modric or D.Silva but he is Greece best player. Especially in terms of goal, games, assists etc. In my opinion the best Greek player of this generation is Fetfatzidis. That’s my opinion. You can just look at the way he handles the ball and beats players. No Greek has his technique and skill. Fetfatzidis is the best Greek player with the ball. On top of all that he is fast and is in great form. He’s a rare player, especially by Greek football standards.