The John van't Schip replacement thread

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  • Great points Don. I’m not the biggest fan of Stafylidis at CB. We all don’t want Stafylidis there because we know that we have better CBs to play. But ever since he’s played there we win our last 3 games. I wonder why? Maybe Bosnia and the other teams have off day? Who knows but all I can say it worked. He kept the same team for those 3 games. I’m not a fan of Bakasetas as I believe we have better for that role but we won with him being there.

    I think JVS is working out something where he is balancing the team out. He has instilled fight into the team which is a big reason we one. Also we have been playing great attacking football. But I believe with a few adjustments we can be even more threatening.

    I don’t think there is room for Mitroglou and Sokratis. I don’t mind them as players but it looks like we are moving into a different direction and focusing on younger inform players. We should’ve done this straight after Skibbe. Vrousai and Kolovos aren’t bad players in my opinion. Vrousai looks good for Willem and at the start Kolovos was playing well for Greece. He was someone who knew how to hold onto possession. He also scored that header against Bosnia. At the same time I don’t think Vrousai, Kolovos and Bakasetas is the answer. I hope Fortounis motivates himself to go above and beyond and work on his weaknesses. He has got great quality.

    I was one of those people scratching my head in the beginning but I think JVS is proving to be a good coach and he want to play attacking football. He also believes Greece can play that way. Just like all of us. As Don said we need to be patient, he clearly has a plan not only for the National team but also for Greek football as a whole.

    Comment


    • He gave an interview with Nova. So for the friendlies he wasn't planning on calling Sokratis, Manolas, and Fortounis. The way he spoke of Mitroglou, it seemed to suggest he didn't have him in his plans at all, but he didn't outright say so. There's no question Mitroglou has to improve his fitness, but even if he returned to form I question if van't Schip will call him.

      Ρωτάνε πολλοί για τον Μήτρογλου.

      "Όσοι μας ακολουθούν τους τελευταίους έξι μήνες είδατε ότι στην επίθεση έχουμε έναν νεαρό παίκτη που σκοράρει σημαντικά γκολ στην Ολλανδία και στην Εθνική ομάδα και είναι το μέλλον της Εθνικής ομάδας. Εμείς άλλωστε ήρθαμε εδώ για να χτίσουμε τη νέα Εθνική ομάδα. Πρέπει να κοιτάμε το μέλλον. Να κοιτάμε παίκτες που είναι νέοι και έχουν φιλοδοξίες. Ο Παυλίδης έχει δείξει μεγάλη ποιότητα και έχει κάνει μεγάλη πρόοδο. Ο Μήτρογλου τα τελευταία χρόνια δεν τα πάει τόσο καλά. Ο Παυλίδης είναι μόλις 20 χρονών, 21 τώρα και τα πηγαίνει περίφημα. Οπότε καλύτερα να μιλάμε γι' αυτόν παρά για τον Μήτρογλου ο οποίος έχει να παίξει έναν χρόνο. Πρέπει να κοιτάμε τη στιγμή και όχι το παρελθόν. Ο κόσμος έχει την άποψή του και αγαπά κάποιους παίκτες που ανήκουν στο παρελθόν".
      Of Sokratis he emphasized a need for passion and commitment:

      Με τον Παπασταθόπουλο είχαμε μιλήσει και στο παρελθόν και στο μέλλον στόχος μας είναι να διαλέγουμε παίκτες και ομάδα που θέλουν να αγωνίζονται για το εθνόσημο. Πρέπει να δίνουν πάθος, να έχουν φιλοδοξία και να δίνουν το 100% όλοι όσοι καλούνται να παίξουν. Σίγουρα μας κάνουν αλλά το ότι παίζει κάποιος σε μεγάλη ομάδα δε σημαίνει ότι αυτομάτως θα παίζει στην Εθνική ομάδα".

      Comment


    • Watched the interview.

      My take away from it is this. We have not qualified for a Euro since 2012 and have not qualified for a world cup since 2014. The reasons were a terrible defence - at the heart of which were Manolas and Sokratis and a terrible lazy striker - Mitroglou. One can blame poor DMs to excuse the weak performances by the CBs and poor wingers to excuse Mitroglou not scoring enough. However, Manolas, Sokratis and Mitroglou - despite being fantastic players on their day for club their teams - performed badly for the Greek NT and were not motivated. What is worse, they were motivated more for political dealings - keeping Skibbe in place, controlling the locker-room, nurturing feuds etc. I am happy they gone. If Manolas returns one day grovelling - I would take him back - but not the others.

      Concerning the future. Van Schip clearly likes the younger players - especially Pavlidis and Xatzidiakos. This is excellent and you can see he wants to build the team around these players. Vasiliadis too will be given chances it seems.

      Concerning Fortounis. Podence seems to have spoken about a hidden reality. Fortounis has a attitude problem. Martins has noticed this too and punished him for this reason. Van Schip has now noticed it too. Fortounis can overcome this problem by become a fanatic for football. Training relentlessly, studying the game etc. I hope he does. I hope he becomes a player that does not roll his eyes and look up at the sky like an angry teenage girl when he loses the ball. I hope he becomes a Tevez type - a fighter.

      Concerning Van Schip. He seems a very intelligent person. Very calm but firm. Very Dutch. He also likes attacking football and he is selecting players trained in that school of football. I like the fact that he lives in Greece. He has weekly meetings with staff. He enjoys the country clearly - unlike Skibbe and other coaches that you had to constantly coax back to Greece.

      Final note. He seems to like Galan at CM.

      Comment


      • I also watched the interview. I liked how he said that “why are we talking about Mitroglou, we should be talking about Pavlidis who presently is playing very well and the other hasn’t played in almost a year”. He goes on about how he understands why people keep talking about Mitroglou because they remember the past. But now, Pavlidis is playing and doing very well.

        Yes, he clearly likes Pavlidis, Galanopoulos and Hatzidiakos, which is great. He was going to call up Chatzigiovannis for the friendlies. Now that everything has paused, Hatzidiakos and Galanopoulos are fortunate enough to get back to full fitness.

        Also he spoke about Vassilakis. He said players like him must be playing at senior level in order to get a call up. I also feel like with him saying this that Stergiou has a good chance of playing.

        I would only want Fortounis back if he shows some fight. Non stop running and passion.

        He also said getting Baldock is almost impossible.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
          He gave an interview with Nova. So for the friendlies he wasn't planning on calling Sokratis, Manolas, and Fortounis. The way he spoke of Mitroglou, it seemed to suggest he didn't have him in his plans at all, but he didn't outright say so. There's no question Mitroglou has to improve his fitness, but even if he returned to form I question if van't Schip will call him.



          Of Sokratis he emphasized a need for passion and commitment:


          Bold statements by our manager...What he said about Mitroglou is absolutely right, he is washed up. Him and Pavlidis play in the same league and while Pavlidis is in the top 10 scorers with 11 goals playing for a mediocre club, people tend not to even remember Mitroglou plays for PSV...

          Comment


          • Pavlidis could be the new Lewandowski for all we know, but during his time at Dortmund he didn't convince them of that and now Haaland looks to be the player to have finally filled in that hole. Even with Paco Alcacer, Dortmund were missing a striker of Lewandowski's quality. Time will tell how good Pavlidis will become. With the right attitude and application, he could exceed expectations just the same. I think he's very luck to have van't Schip, who was no slouch himself when he was a striker for Ajax and Genoa during his playing days. Pavlidis should really thank his lucky stars.

            Fortounis has to improve his fitness and work rate in order to secure his place, but I think he won't do that unless he leaves Greece. The other option is he improves his quality to point we can afford him in a free role. Tsartas never ran either, but his quality justified his place in most games. Fortounis certainly has room for improvement no matter which way we look at it. As things stand, Bakasetas (and could it be Vrousaj too?) stand to ahead of him in the pecking order.

            I thought when we played Finland, we could have used Mitroglou. It was do-or-die and instead we depended on Masouras, Koulouris, Vrousaj, Pavlidis... guys who not yet scored for Greece. Kolovos was the one player who had at least one goal to his name but he was very poor in this one. He couldn't play on the half-turn. He was asked to play alongside players he hardly had any previous experience and with whom he had next to chemistry. Not to mention loads of pressure which he couldn't handle. Every pass to him that game might as well have been played into the Bermuda triangle.

            At least Mitroglou can hold up the ball and bring players into play even when he's not able to score. He can create enough of a threat to occupy the CBs. And he's physically imposing. He has experience. In that match, with qualification on the line, I think van't Schip made a mistake not doing more to coral Mitroglou (after the way Anastasiadis burned him) and convince him he had to be part of the team for that game. It was too important a game not to get everyone on deck. And at that time, Mitroglou was showing signs of life. He scored two goals, one in Europe too.

            Now forget him. Unless he gets into proper shape and finds form, he can't be considered. But I wouldn't rule him out totally. Beyond Vellios, we don't really have anyone else who can hold up the ball well and act as a battering ram. It wouldn't hurt to have a big body as an option from the bench. A Troy Deeney so-to-speak.

            I like a lot of what van't Schip has done. He has set and excellent bar, but I don't like the talk of retiring this or that player behind the scenes, which the EPO has been doing even before van't Schip got the job. He has to work things out with players who feel burnt. He has to be forthright with them about his plans and at least keep the door open to let them know that they still have a role. He seems to be doing that, but the way he says things sometimes, you get the feeling his mind is actually made up already.

            Comment


            • JVS has said many times that the door is open to everyone. But I do get a feeling that Manolas and Sokratis don’t want to be involved anymore. I could be wrong. We should be hearing reports that they desperately want to come back but we haven’t got any reports on that. They are actually our best exported players. Both Arsenal and Napoli are top teams and no other Greek is playing for teams of that quality.

              I also think JVS wants to have a left footed CB. So that’s why we’ve seen Siovas and Stafylidis played there. He was going to call up Kyriakopoulos for that role too. I understand the mindset and game plan to do that, but I don’t know if it’s the right way to go about it. Especially because Sokratis and Manolas are right footed and that playing Stafylidis there again would potentially hurt the team with him being there. Also with the way Hatzidiakos has played he should be one of the main CBs in the starting 11.

              I do think Mitroglou is washed up. But I see Dons point of view because we haven’t really got a lot of good strikers. Also I’m not completely sold on Koulouris yet. But I believe for now Pavlidis should be our main striker.

              We also have to rethink the RB role too. Another position we haven’t got enough depth at.

              Comment


              • I get that feeling too. It seems to me the EPO might have burnt those bridges and van't Schip has alluded to that possibility before.

                Agreed on the left footed CB. It would give us better balance in the back. I don't think Stafylidis can carry on in that role unless we go with a back three (e.g., Stafylidis, Manolas/Mavropanos, and Hatzidiakos/Retsos). But van't Schip seems to prefer some variation or another on the 4-3-3, with two CBs, not three.

                Mitroglou has to get it together. I'm not expecting him to recapture his best scoring form. I think more than anything he still holds some tactical value as a big body who can bring others into play and perhaps score the odd goal. He could be another Vryzas if he's willing to put the work in and sacrifice for the team. He has to think in those terms.

                Comment


                • True he has to get it together because only one of Mitroglou or Koulouris should be Pavlidis back up.

                  I’m interested to know who should be the RB. I’m not convinced with Bakakis. I think down the line he is going to cause us problems. Same can be said about Stafylidis. Bakakis isn’t a great defender. I’m wondering if we should put one of our LBs there but it don’t think it will work in attack. Giannis Masouras and Natsos were my candidates but there inconsistency in playing time is an issue. Kitsiou is more or less like Bakakis.

                  Maybe Zeca should play there... What does everyone else think about this?

                  Comment


                  • Bakakis isn't ideal and it's evident he looks unsure of himself in one-v-one situations when defending. I think he's too small and easy to beat, which could leave us exposed at the back.

                    Given that Baldock may not get the call, it seems we're very short of good options here.

                    Zeca could fill in, but I don't think he should be first choice at RB. A make-shift, yes, but not first choice. He's not a great crosser, but he plays with loads of energy and can make good tackles. I think he's better in the middle.

                    If we do play a back three, we could get away with Limnios at RM/RWB. This to me fits as the best solution given our options. My feeling has long been that we are a 3-4-3 team and I don't see why van't Schip can't look to Gasperini for inspiration here; however, van't Schip seems rather fixated on a Cruyffian 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 system.

                    Retsos or Hatzidiakos could play there too, but they won't be great threats in the final third in terms of getting proper crosses in; however, at least with one of the them we have a proper defender capable of helping us keep that all important clean sheet when we take on teams of real quality. Bakakis isn't good enough on the defensive end and his productivity going forward isn't exceptional either (even if it's better than what most other players have on offer).

                    For Greece, it's more important to have a proper defender here. The goals we conceded to Italy in the 0-3 loss were largely the result of Stafylidis from the left-back position having played a bad pass through the center and the result of Zeca having been caught out of his right-back position twice. The wing-back positions persist as areas where opposition teams can exploit.

                    The other problem is we either leave too much space between our lines or we defend too deep. We need to be brave and defend higher, while keeping things tight.

                    Beyond that, we have to do a better job of keeping the ball, or at least when we lose it, it's because of an ambitious pass that is played into the opposition's final third, so in other words behind their center-backs, not right in front of our own center-backs. The players have to show more concentration, more confidence, and share better awareness when in possession of the ball. This will take a lot of time to do, but van't Schip showed a lot of great progress already on this front.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dean97 View Post
                      I’m wondering if we should put one of our LBs there
                      Giannoulis on one side and Tsimikas on the other... we used Torosidis on the left for a while and it worked, he was able to use both feet but I think it's worth testing the waters with this

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Amorgos View Post
                        Giannoulis on one side and Tsimikas on the other... we used Torosidis on the left for a while and it worked, he was able to use both feet but I think it's worth testing the waters with this
                        It’s crazy how more than 10 years ago we had very little options at LB which was why Torosidis played there and now 10 years later we have very little options at RB. Tsimikas and Giannoulis are very one footed l so I don’t know if it will work. Torosidis was capable of using left in his whole career. I think out of Tsimikas and Giannoulis, Tsimikas has a better right foot as I remember Tsimikas having a shot outside the box against Arsenal with his right. It’s definitely worth giving a shot.

                        Also to mention, back then we had Seitaridis as well and Torosidis was playing very well. So yeah Tsimikas should be experimented as a RB. Also he shouldn’t be benched as he is in hot form. Also with they way he has been playing I think he would be up for the challenge.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
                          Bakakis isn't ideal and it's evident he looks unsure of himself in one-v-one situations when defending. I think he's too small and easy to beat, which could leave us exposed at the back.

                          Given that Baldock may not get the call, it seems we're very short of good options here.

                          Zeca could fill in, but I don't think he should be first choice at RB. A make-shift, yes, but not first choice. He's not a great crosser, but he plays with loads of energy and can make good tackles. I think he's better in the middle.

                          If we do play a back three, we could get away with Limnios at RM/RWB. This to me fits as the best solution given our options. My feeling has long been that we are a 3-4-3 team and I don't see why van't Schip can't look to Gasperini for inspiration here; however, van't Schip seems rather fixated on a Cruyffian 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 system.

                          Retsos or Hatzidiakos could play there too, but they won't be great threats in the final third in terms of getting proper crosses in; however, at least with one of the them we have a proper defender capable of helping us keep that all important clean sheet when we take on teams of real quality. Bakakis isn't good enough on the defensive end and his productivity going forward isn't exceptional either (even if it's better than what most other players have on offer).

                          For Greece, it's more important to have a proper defender here. The goals we conceded to Italy in the 0-3 loss were largely the result of Stafylidis from the left-back position having played a bad pass through the center and the result of Zeca having been caught out of his right-back position twice. The wing-back positions persist as areas where opposition teams can exploit.

                          The other problem is we either leave too much space between our lines or we defend too deep. We need to be brave and defend higher, while keeping things tight.

                          Beyond that, we have to do a better job of keeping the ball, or at least when we lose it, it's because of an ambitious pass that is played into the opposition's final third, so in other words behind their center-backs, not right in front of our own center-backs. The players have to show more concentration, more confidence, and share better awareness when in possession of the ball. This will take a lot of time to do, but van't Schip showed a lot of great progress already on this front.
                          I think we seem much hungrier to get the ball back. We seem to be more aggressive under JVS. We haven’t played so well like we have for a long time. Especially in attack. But there’s still work to do. The passion is coming back and we look like a team again.

                          As I said above I think we should get one of our LBs to play at RB. Tsimikas seems the best bet. Giannoulis has beautiful crosses and is very accurate. Also a decent defender. We are producing a good amount of LBs. Tsimikas, Giannoulis, Koutris, Kyriakopoulos....

                          I think we should have Retsos, Tsimikas and Giannis Masouras battling it out for the RB spot. I know G. Masouras hasn’t done enough yet but I believe when he comes back to Olympiakos he should be given a chance at RB if Elabdelloui leaves. Hopefully Masouras can shine and be a contender for RB next season. Only 23.

                          JVS sees Kyriakopoulos as a LCB. He’s tall, strong and has a great left foot. Can ping balls across the field well. I think JVS wants more balance at the back.

                          If we play 3 at the back then Limnios should be RWB/RM.

                          Comment


                          • Van't Schip has been proving Greece can play with mostly youth from local clubs. I feel a bit like Alan Hansen here. This manager has proven me wrong in that sense and I'm glad he did. He's also proving Greece can play the sort of football I think all of us felt we always could, but that others before him were either reluctant to do or who were simply too out of step with the players available to make it happen, as we saw with Anastasiadis.

                            I thought playing Stafylidis at center-back was really an act of self-sabotage. It was made all the more eyebrow raising by the fact he was leaving Manolas and Sokratis out; however, van't Schip clearly has his wits well intact. We're very lucky to have him. Let no one believe otherwise. It wouldn't surprise me if he were to manage his home country soon enough because they are looking for a manager and he fits the bill.

                            Comment


                            • I like the style Van’t Schip has implemented. I do believe we are lucky to have him and he has convinced most of us. I don’t think he will leave any time soon. He and his team are working on project Qatar. I question some of his selections though. Also I still get frustrated with some of our players. Stafylidis, Bakakis, Kourbelis, Zeca, Svarnas (even though he did well) and Bakasetas wouldn’t start for me or even be in the team. They all have something in common, they are error prone and lack skill and technique. Svarnas at least didn’t make a lot of errors and looked comfortable on the ball. But we still got better options.

                              He needs to find a new captain, someone who is more reliable and not injury prone. He also needs to find a better CM and he needs to give other players opportunities at the CAM role.

                              Comment

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