ECQ Finland vs Greece

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Amorgos View Post

    I think there is not much coaches can do anymore, our players have been playing like dogs for 5 years
    You think Van Shit picked that squad himself? He watched old videos of Stafylidis and thought, 'Yes!' Same for Bakakis, Pelkas, Kourbelis, Kolovos etc?

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    • #62
      I dont buy the lacks talent argument. Greece has guys on this squad that are littered across the top 5 leagues and domestic powerhouses. We certainly have a more a talented squad than Finland, Armenia or Estonia. Yet we keep losing to them.

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      • #63
        I don’t know what to say...

        I don’t see is getting anywhere. I’m not blaming the coach as it’s his first game but I don’t see him staying longer especially with the way football is run in Greece - Always changing managers.

        What i saw today was a team with no real fight. No balls. No skill. Our midfield is not threatening enough as always and never was really. Our fullbacks are not inspiring whatsoever. We have 0 creativity. 0.

        As as a fan and supporter I’m really frustrated. Why a player like Fetfatzidis was not put on is mind boggling to begin with. To only count on Fortounis as the creator is really sad.

        Our team needs serious help. We can’t be this bad. Every position now needs to be checked and analysed. Our defence is not how it used to be. Even though we conceded a penalty it was never this weak. We used to be more solid and provided more cover. Until we produce a few top quality CMs and FBs I don’t see us getting anywhere. You can clash the same for the majority of the positions.

        Truly gutted that we are out of the Euros and yet again missing out on another tournament. Don’t know what has to happen really.

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        • #64
          Soprano76 while I agree that we do have quite a few players who are playing at respectable clubs, as a team we just don't have it. Also, we have no players with a killer instinct. I used to be of the same mind set, always wondering why we had such a hard time beating even the worst of teams, but in 2019, I really just don't think we have a pool of players that can compete at the international level. We have a few that can, but the majority of pretty much just filler.

          I want to be wrong, but nothing about these results says otherwise. Just a bunch of players running around, with no plan/urgency. We were able to push the ball up the field on Finland, but couldn't get an accurate cross in to save our lives, and our finishing was poor.

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          • #65
            First thing that has to be done is fire Grammenos. The fish rots from the head up. Disastrous decisions from that moron
            the last few years in who he hired to lead the NT. And then blow the whole thing up. Try to cap the Vasiliadis kid from
            Paderborn or the young Spanish Greek kid, whose name escapes me that's in Madrid's academy, with our current crop
            of youngsters like Bouzoukis, Hatzigiovannis. And maybe get a manager with a little international pedigree for God's sakes

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            • #66
              You guys have said it all. Why bother to call up Fetfatzidis if you're not going to play him, yet you put Torosidis on the pitch who's been in limbo for how long and who's last competitive match with the ethniki had everybody calling for his removal?

              You have to give the coach time to sort this mess out but I don't know what can be done about all the kreas on the field. Maybe put them all in a bag and roll it down a hill, whoever survives you let play.

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              • #67
                We lacked cohesion and experience. That's why they look clumsy and can't connect simple passes. Up front, we had players who hadn't played together in months and have little chemistry between themselves even from before.

                I thought Kolovos and Kourbelis killed us today. They weren't particularly poor, but they made mistakes that prevented us from getting a result. Kolovos is not capable of playing between the lines, let alone stringing together the play. Kourbelis should have been subbed at the half. He was already on a yellow. He killed us with that very silly foul for the penalty. It was avoidable and Kourbelis had no reason to commit himself like that.

                I think the 4-2-3-1 formation also hurt us, but to play something different takes time for adaption. Finland's 4-4-2 spread our two DMs out. At one point Kourbelis was caught out and Finland nearly scored from distance. Manolas rightfully laid into him. The 4-3-3 would have worked better. Zeca should have started to give us more numbers in the middle and free up Bouchalakis, who was better than Samaris has previously offered, but still not good enough. Again, he was timid. At the 11th minute mark he had Stafylidis wide open on the wing, but chose to play a short pass. Later he made long range passes, one of which found Koulouris in the box, but the chance proved too difficult to convert to anything meaningful.

                We should have put more shots on goal from distance. Stafylidis forced the keeper to nearly bobble the ball right into Koulouris' path. We should have done more of that and we might have seen Koulouris score the type of scrappy goal he makes his bread and butter with. Van't Schip should have instructed his players to do that, but I don't think he did. I think Mitroglou was the sub we needed once it became evident Koulouris was not up to scratch. Pavlidis and Vrousai are not experienced enough for a match of this kind.

                The coach asked for more passion, to play for Greece. Manolas sang his heart out during the anthem. Not so much the new guys who looked very timid signing the anthem. We were never going to win a game like this playing the u21 offense. We needed Tachtsidis, Donis, and Mitroglou given all three were fit and available. They need to be on this team. If they played, I think we would have given Finland more of a contest. At times, especially before the goal, Finland were made look like a much better side than they really are. In any case, they deserved something out of this game and look set to qualify directly to Euro 2020, their first major finals ever.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Greekfreak View Post
                  . Maybe put them all in a bag and roll it down a hill, whoever survives you let play.
                  Sadly, I get the feeling, the ones who will survive that experience are the Tzavellas types. He strikes me as the kind of guy who will float the idea of cannibalism in a shipwreck island scenario before anyone has even begun to starve.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by LoneHorseman View Post
                    First thing that has to be done is fire Grammenos. The fish rots from the head up. Disastrous decisions from that moron
                    the last few years in who he hired to lead the NT. And then blow the whole thing up. Try to cap the Vasiliadis kid from
                    Paderborn or the young Spanish Greek kid, whose name escapes me that's in Madrid's academy, with our current crop
                    of youngsters like Bouzoukis, Hatzigiovannis. And maybe get a manager with a little international pedigree for God's sakes
                    Precisely. Why the fuck does Grammenos get to fuck up generation after generation but the media is willing to unzip his flies after every disaster?

                    It is over now. I say play the under 21s for the rest of the games. Many of them are already better than their adult equivalents. Bouzoukis> Kolovos etc

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                    • #70
                      Sucks. No way we're making the WC either. At least 8 years without a tournament.

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                      • #71
                        I agree I don’t think we will make it to the World Cup either. What I want to see is a fresh team. Young team that we can build and we got the coach for that. Vrousai and Pavlidis did ok. The problem is we don’t have enough quality CMs Coming through. Androutsos and Galanopoulos are decent right now, hopefully they grow and grow.

                        I feel like I need a rest from watching this team. It’s been a recurring theme. No creativity and finishing. The defence was good this game. Kolovos and Kourbelis did have a poor game.

                        Mitroglou and Donis are needed but we still will not get the job done with them as seen in the past. In Euro 2016 I gave the excuse the team was new and the experienced players left which led to the disaster of not qualifying and coming last. Then in the 2018 World Cup qualifying we just missed out and I blamed it on Skibbe for his poor tactics and player selection. Now in 2019 I’ve suddenly about to reach my limit with the team. We’ve had 5 years to gel and still are playing poorly and against teams that are lower than us in ability.

                        I don’t know but all I’m saying is why should I look forward to watching a team that can’t create any chances and lose to smaller teams. I don’t know if I’m going to watch the next match. The only way I know I’m going to watch is if we have a completely new team. Kourbelis, Kolovos, Pelkas, Koulouris, Stafylidis and others need to do better. I honestly believe Pavlidis has more to offer than Koulouris.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Kef View Post
                          Coach doesn't matter. Nor does the lineup. The team lacks talent so you can try every which way to get to the right combination but each time you end up with the same poor result. Its like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Its too bad. Greece should produce better talent than this. There was no urgency to go forward and no one had any ideas once they reached the offensive half. Instead of making runs, they made back passes. Not going to score much doing that.
                          This.

                          and here's a comment from gazzetta.gr worth reading (use google translate if needed)

                          Η Εθνική μας είναι ένας πολύ αντιπροσωπευτικός καθρέφτης της (νέο)Ελληνικής νοοτροπίας.

                          Το 2004, λίγο η τύχη, λίγο η ικανότητα, λίγο τα λόγια του παπά μας έφεραν μια μεγάλη επιτυχία που μας έφερε στο επίκεντρο της Ευρώπης. Επίσης, εκείνη τη χρονιά έπαιξαν στο Τσάμπιονς Λιγκ 3 ομάδες.

                          Κάθε ομοσπονδία θα έπαιρνε αυτή την ευκαιρία από τη φήμη και τα χρήματα που ήρθαν με τις επιτυχίες και θα έφτιαχνε υποδομές, ώστε η νέα φουρνιά να βγει ακόμα πιο δυνατή. Να γίνουν οι απαραίτητες ενέργειες ώστε τα επόμενα 20 χρόνια να βλέπουμε τα παιδιά που «μεγάλωσαν με τον θρίαμβο του 2004».

                          Αντ’αυτού, όλοι βολεύτηκαν σε πόστα (ποδοσφαιρικά, πολιτικά, κλπ), δεν έδωσαν τίποτα πίσω από αυτά που πήραν και φτάσαμε 15 χρόνια αργότερα να βλέπουμε ποδοσφαιριστές αγύμναστους, άτεχνους και ανίκανους τακτικά γιατί κανένας σύλλογος ή ομάδα δεν μπορεί να τους εξελίξει.

                          Πραγματικά θλιβερό και δεν φαίνεται φως στο τούνελ.


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                          • #73
                            In the modern game, the players just need to be faster and more direct--by the time you've completed your second square pass to a fellow defender, the opposition is already stacked in the back. Whatever direct midfielders we have should be playing week-in and week-out, preferably together, and can't be dithering about.

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                            • #74
                              Similar to the way Serbia plays. I gave up hope a long time ago. Although, our situation is even worse as we have a better team than Greece on paper. No creativity, no cohesion and the most important of all- no speed. The problem is that.. unlike teams like Iceland and Finland, which know their limits, and win thanks to cohesive defence and fighting spirit, we are still trying to play like European Brazil. The reason why Zvezda is successful under Milojevic is that he is playing to our strengths in football. We can fight, we are tall and strong, but we cannot play jogo bonito. And the sooner fans understand it-the better.

                              I have accepted that, in sports, we are talented for basketball, volleyball, waterpolo and corruption. Because there is no as much money in these sports, corruption cannot destroy the talent. In football, corruption and mismanagement annihilate any talent that we may have.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by StellaRojas View Post
                                Similar to the way Serbia plays. I gave up hope a long time ago. Although, our situation is even worse as we have a better team than Greece on paper. No creativity, no cohesion and the most important of all- no speed. The problem is that.. unlike teams like Iceland and Finland, which know their limits, and win thanks to cohesive defence and fighting spirit, we are still trying to play like European Brazil. The reason why Zvezda is successful under Milojevic is that he is playing to our strengths in football. We can fight, we are tall and strong, but we cannot play jogo bonito. And the sooner fans understand it-the better.

                                I have accepted that, in sports, we are talented for basketball, volleyball, waterpolo and corruption. Because there is no as much money in these sports, corruption cannot destroy the talent. In football, corruption and mismanagement annihilate any talent that we may have.
                                Super post file. I think Hellas just doesn't have the players and doesn't have the coach or organisation (EPO) to build anything even if we did. Media starting to realise this is down to Grammenos.

                                https://m.sport24.gr/football/ellada...

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