ECQ Greece vs Finland

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  • #76
    Originally posted by ThrylosG7 View Post
    Im not going to micro analyse the game and each individual - what I see is that with good tactics, team unity and spirit you can build a team that is competitive and is better than the sum of its parts when sticking to the game plan. One thing I agree with Reaper is that most of our players are interchangeable - how much better or worse are the players collectively apart from 2 or 3 stand out players .

    What I saw from the game is that we are a far better team than Finland - except they have a striker that knows how to find the net....If Pukki played for us we would have been up 2-0 at half time. if we had JVS sooner we would have qualified ahead of Finland IMHO

    I think JVS went with the same 11 here because he wanted to make a statement and win this game , not experiment or take any type of risk , it was important to win 3 in a row.

    I will address a couple of things though.

    1. Stafylidis ...JVS is not stupid , clearly he sees something in Staf to make him captain and CB . We have been lacking a proper leader for a while now and sometimes you cant underestimate what a good leader can bring on the field . Until we start shipping goals because he is playing there I dont I'm happy to see how it plays out.

    2. Fetfatzidis .... At some point all the knob polishing for this guy has to stop - There is a reason so many managers overlook him and really only had regular starts in Saudi Arabia . All thos managers are wrong about him and we know better ?? come on guys..

    3.we really need to find a decent creative Mid and a clinical striker

    4. Limnios - Im worried if this kid leaves Greece he will end up a bench warmer - at the same time I dont see him improving at PAOK dramatically considering how the Greek league is at the moment it really is a pity they didnt qualify for Europe , that exposure would do him a lot of good...- If he leaves I hope he makes a good decision and has that internal motivation to work hard and not drift into obscurity

    5. I still think Masouras should start as should Tsimikas

    I dont expect to see too many changes at once in the next round of games even friendlies - maintaining momentum and a winning mentality is more important than experimenting , i think we will only be seeing 2 or 3 changes at most in meaningless games . It was a formula that served both Otto and Santos well. Being competitive against the top Euro teams and beating opponents at your level even in friendlies breeds confidence in players .
    Great points. But lets not underestimate what Fetfatzidis can bring to the table. There is a reason why some of us exaggerate the talents he has. Came on the last 5 mins against Bosnia and we scored the winning goal. JVS is not dumb and I believe he knows what hes doing as the performances and results show it. Pukki is a quality player and Stafylidis got exposed. But its not really fair to put all the blame on Stafylidis. I think he suits to be a CB more than a LB. He gets less exposed as a CB as he has decent LB to shield him in Giannoulis. Stafylidis isn't the best defender as is i closely watched him but there is something that he brings whether thats leadership, spirit or motivation. We haven't lost with him being at CB so it really is an interesting situation.

    Credit has to go to JVS for setting up and organizing the way team has been set out. Hes made every player better and players like Limnios and Hatzidiakos are excelling. Even the limited Bakasetas looks somewhat decent in this set up. I dont really buy that the teams we have played haven't been trying at their best. Apart from the Italy match we have been controlling most of the games and are having a crazy amount of shots on goal. From 1 attempt it has become 29 attempts. That isn't luck to me.

    But again, i do believe we need a more quality creative midfielder as Fortounis fits the role. Even Mantalos can be the creative mid. I think with a proper play maker we see more goals from Pavlidis. I would give Pavlidis time. I wouldn't bring the back the lazy Mitroglou. Pavlidis chases and defends more. He is also faster than Mitroglou. We need to be patient with Pavlidis. Koulouris should be the 2nd option.

    Giannoulis is a fantastic player, is anyone else impressed with him?

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Reaper View Post
      Hope Van Shit battles the EPO and forces many friendlies.

      Also, it seems the system the coach uses - doesn't really involve the two CMs too much. I would probably keep Galan and be tempted to give Kourbelis' spot to Mandalos when Fortounis is fit. Mandalos was never as fast since that terrible injury. Think he wasted on the left.

      Something like this:

      ................Galan.....................
      ..................................Mandalos........ ......

      Limnios............. Fortounis.................. Masouras

      .................. Pavlidis........................ ........
      Yet again I'm in agreement with you. With the way we are playing lately which is attacking this would be the best way to play going forward. I would like to see Mantalos as an 8. He played that role in one play and we looked more dangerous. Id also prefer a left footed winger in Fetfa on the left to bring in crosses as Limnios has the RW position locked down. I'd probably try Androutsos as the 8 first but now that i said that i will probably get blasted by Don for saying it.

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      • Don Giovanni
        Don Giovanni commented
        Editing a comment
        Androutsos as an 8?! Only when he plays for Real Madrid will I change my mind!

    • #78
      TBH, if Holebas played today he would have looked like our best player. That said, Giannoulis played well. He's proving to be a fairly solid player who has good aggression and desire to succeed. He still has some way to go and these are early days in his development.

      I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Stafylidis as captain and as a CB. This reminds me of the days when Basinas played CB. I have a vague memory of him attempting the splits some 50 yards from his goal, watching helplessly as Ukraine scored. I think this is a mistake, and frankly insulting to opponents and teammates alike, but coach gets to choose his own poison if he so wishes it. Only trouble can come from this arrangement. Skibbe too thought it was a good idea to play Tzavellas at CB. At least Tzavellas actually played there for PAOK, but it did us no good against Croatia. Not to mention that Stafylidis himself was culpable two goals himself that game when lost 4-1 and ended our hopes of qualifying for the World Cup.

      Comment


      • #79
        Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
        TBH, if Holebas played today he would have looked like our best player. That said, Giannoulis played well. He's proving to be a fairly solid player who has good aggression and desire to succeed. He still has some way to go and these are early days in his development.

        I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Stafylidis as captain and as a CB. This reminds me of the days when Basinas played CB. I have a vague memory of him attempting the splits some 50 yards from his goal, watching helplessly as Ukraine scored. I think this is a mistake, and frankly insulting to opponents and teammates alike, but coach gets to choose his own poison if he so wishes it. Only trouble can come from this arrangement. Skibbe too thought it was a good idea to play Tzavellas at CB. At least Tzavellas actually played there for PAOK, but it did us no good against Croatia. Not to mention that Stafylidis himself was culpable two goals himself that game when lost 4-1 and ended our hopes of qualifying for the World Cup.
        I agree its an insult to CBs like Risvanis, Nikolaou, Siovas and Lampropoulos who are good enough to start in this team. But if something is working why change it. Im not a huge fan of Stafy at CB but the team is winning and if it means winning with Stafy at CB then so be it. Something has changed in this team and its the attitude. Weve got rid of the complacency and implemented hungry youth. Its worked so far and all the players are buying into the coaches plans. This the 11 now and its going to be hard to change a winning 11 for no reason. If we lost then changes need to be made but 3 in a row is not being lucky. Bosnia and Armenia had something to play for and we dominated them. Finland are high on confidence and we dominated them too. Its no coinicednce as something has changed and our players look the most motivated i have ever seen. To reiterate JVS deserves the credit and it goes to show you the talent was always there.

        But I'm not giving up in saying that we have even better options to play. What do we know we are not coaches we are fans with opinions. But I believe and trust in my judgement when i say a player is good or bad and when a player is better than another.

        Comment


        • #80
          Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
          TBH, if Holebas played today he would have looked like our best player. That said, Giannoulis played well. He's proving to be a fairly solid player who has good aggression and desire to succeed. He still has some way to go and these are early days in his development.

          I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Stafylidis as captain and as a CB. This reminds me of the days when Basinas played CB. I have a vague memory of him attempting the splits some 50 yards from his goal, watching helplessly as Ukraine scored. I think this is a mistake, and frankly insulting to opponents and teammates alike, but coach gets to choose his own poison if he so wishes it. Only trouble can come from this arrangement. Skibbe too thought it was a good idea to play Tzavellas at CB. At least Tzavellas actually played there for PAOK, but it did us no good against Croatia. Not to mention that Stafylidis himself was culpable two goals himself that game when lost 4-1 and ended our hopes of qualifying for the World Cup.
          Sometimes the Gods come to earth to make a post and then return whence they came. You nailed it.

          Greeks have suffered enough for 4000 years of history to have deal with another decade of watching a fucking hapless LB converted to CB in our national team - the cold irony being of course CB is the one fucking position we are adequately stacked in. It is like some sort of fucking Sisyphean punishment.

          Basinas doing the splits, Vryzas playing confederations cup in a fucking arm cast, CBs playing DMs, LBs at CB - wingers as strikers.. must win games - last 10 mins - bringing on DMs... and these are foreign coaches thinking this is normal.. Does Stafylidis have a video of Grammenos fucking a mulari or something?

          Anyways rant over. Just tired of years of weird lineups. There was a point when Terry Venables stated (if I remember correctly) he would be happy to coach the Greek NT. I wish he had at some point. Just for once - to see a Greek team with players in their correct positions and of course the guy loved an extra CB..

          Comment


          • #81
            Terry Venables is the reason that Australia failed to qualify for the WC in 98 - he went undefeated in the whole qualifying campaign - and then fucked it all up in the last game with crazy tactics at the end when they needed to defend. Personally I would have loved to see Gus Hiddink take over the Greek NT

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            • #82
              I just read the game was interrupted and after that interruption Australia blew their 2-0 lead. You remember what Venables changed?

              I liked Venables. Greece almost got Venables instead of Rehhagel. It's hard to imagine us winning Euro 2004 with Venables, but we would have played some rocking football.

              I think Hiddink would have been a good hire prior to 2010. I like him a lot as a coach and he knew how to handle difficult personalities. I remember Davids had a falling out with Hiddink at Euro '96. Davids had accused Hiddink of being "too deep in the ass of Danny Blind!" Needless to say he offered Davids a chance to apologize, which Davids did, but Davids said his feelings were unchanged about being left out of the eleven. That caused Hiddink to send Davids home. Hiddink had no qualms about bringing Davids back for the World Cup in France two years later. If I had someone tell me I was deep in some other's guys ass, things would have been different...

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              • #83
                Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
                I just read the game was interrupted and after that interruption Australia blew their 2-0 lead. You remember what Venables changed?

                I liked Venables. Greece almost got Venables instead of Rehhagel. It's hard to imagine us winning Euro 2004 with Venables, but we would have played some rocking football.

                I think Hiddink would have been a good hire prior to 2010. I like him a lot as a coach and he knew how to handle difficult personalities. I remember Davids had a falling out with Hiddink at Euro '96. Davids had accused Hiddink of being "too deep in the ass of Danny Blind!" Needless to say he offered Davids a chance to apologize, which Davids did, but Davids said his feelings were unchanged about being left out of the eleven. That caused Hiddink to send Davids home. Hiddink had no qualms about bringing Davids back for the World Cup in France two years later. If I had someone tell me I was deep in some other's guys ass, things would have been different...
                At 2-1 he should have shup up shop brought on a central defender and try t hit them on the break as they were chasing the game . The game was disrupted by a malaka who ran on the field and tore down the goal net - which stoped the game for 15 min. The player he brought on Tapaie was useless and the other player was a wing back . He undid all his good work in those last 30 mins...He kept the team pushing a high line - which led to the second goal when they beat the offside trap.

                Hiddink took over the Aust NT 6 months before the 2006 world cup got them Qualified ultra fit playing great football - and just narrowly lost to Italy with a - by a stupid attempt at a tackle in extra time. Hiddink has got a good track record of working with players that he has - he is not a chequebook manager which is why he is good with with National teams. Plus he is a master tactician...here is a great story.

                When Australia played Uruaguay for the WC playoff the first leg was in Motevideo - Hiiddink asked the Aust FA to book all the flights out of Uruguay to Australia after the game. So the Uruguayans couldnt get a flight for another 48 hours and had to fly economy . Australia who was sponsored by Qantas were given a chartered plane decked out with beds, massage tables the works...uruguay arrived in Sydney 2 days later, so less time to prepare here and were heavily jetlagged

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