Sokratis (Arsenal)

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  • #31
    Luiz is better at distribution and I'd say Siovas too, but Sokratis wasn't being asked to play the 70-yard passes, Luiz was in fact asked to do that. Sokratis was asked to make simple ground passes and it makes no sense to suggest he shouldn't attempt them.

    I saw the whole game. Arsenal as a whole struggled to make these set-plays work, not just Sokratis. FIFA introduce a law change only this past summer that permits this sort of tactic. This is new. Arsenal invited Watford all the way to their box and tried to play tiki-taka through them. If you saw how static and directionless Arsenal were on these set-plays you would have seen where the problem was. The problem was bigger than a misplaced pass by Sokratis.

    And in fairness to Sokratis, he actually played well in the game. He had two nervy moments where he needed to do better, one that proved costly. Overall he was a measure of calm and reassurance at the back with Arsenal under huge pressure. Arsenal had to cope with 31 shots and came out with a 2-2 draw despite having only 7 efforts themselves! They're lucky to have gotten the draw because after Arsenal took a 2-0 lead, they turned off the attack, played too deep, and let Watford get control of the game.

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    • #32
      The heavy Manchester rain made for a poor match against United.

      Despite that, he kept Rashford in his back pocket. He did really well to keep Maguire quiet on set-pieces, never losing him no matter how hard Maguire tried. I liked how late on he attempted to get forward, but his coach wanted him to stay back. He was eager to score at the end, but Arsenal were very poor with their set-piece deliveries.

      United were a lot better from set-piece and McTominay should have had a second off a corner kick that should not have been given after Sokratis did a great job ushering James out of bounds over the goal line and forcing James to simply fumble the ball.

      If I were to nitpick, it could be said he didn't do enough to get more in front of the shot that led to the goal. He could have gotten a bigger piece of the ball when attempting to block that shot. He arguably could have been braver. But I was thoroughly impressed with the fact he got back and was in a position to even close the shot down after a spell of end-to-end action which nearly saw an Arsenal goal instead that began with his great headed clearance from an earlier corner.

      Most of his passes were simple and back to the keeper or to his fellow defenders. The water log pitch often resulted in the ball getting caught at players' feet and he did well to release the ball and avoid a clumsy mistake. He did place a couple of longer balls forward and they were well played.

      Arsenal's best players were Aubameyang, Saka, and Leno. I thought the team as a whole played well; however, Pepe continues to struggle. They way he's looking suggests to me he needed to gain more experience at Lille first and thus develop more into his own. It seems he's not yet ready for life in the EPL. He's struggling a lot. Also, Ozil's wages demand that he must provide. It's simply inexcusable that he's not performing to the level needed by the club. Arsenal need a creative spark and that midfield of Xhaka, Torreira, and Guendouzi offers no such spark. These three are good, industrious players. Xhaka can rake passes, the other two can run nonstop and cover ground well, but Arsenal needs a player who can string the ball around in the final third. Ceballos is still too raw to fulfill that function and Saka is the closest they've got to someone who can create some mischief. Losing Ramsey was a mistake.

      Leno was superb. The German keeper is highly underrated. He's still a little loss in terms of figuring out what to do at goal-kicks, but other than that he's a reliable keeper who gives quiet confidence to his teammates.

      Aubameyang is the player Arsenal has always been lucky to have, only to disappoint with their lack of ambition and eventually be forced to sell, just like with Henry and Van Persie before him. Arsenal have to do more to keep him happy. All he needs is one or two chances to get in and he scores. Losing him would be a missed opportunity to build a proper team.

      I suspect that Arsenal will try to sign Zaha (Pepe's countryman) from Crystal Palace in the next summer transfer window, or fail that Cenghiz from Roma (who is falling behind Kluivert and Zaniolo in the pecking order) at a more affordable price, and once they do they'll have the depth and quality of a front three comparable to that of Liverpool and Manchester City. They also need to sign another quality CB. It's not enough to have Luiz and Sokratis, they need one more CB of equal or greater quality. And finally they need to replace Ozil. Ceballos is not mature enough, but Ajax's Ziyech who has been liked to Arsenal before would do the trick.

      The quality of this team might be enough to sneak into the 4th place this season.
      Last edited by Don Giovanni; 10-01-2019, 01:43 AM.

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      • #33
        https://www.football.london/arsenal-...emery-17062087

        This is a good recap of Sokratis' contributions to Arsenal so far this season

        It seems that memories of Sokratis' best moments in an Arsenal shirt soon fade. It was as recently as the trip to Newcastle on the opening weekend that the 31-year-old was defying every attack thrown at him by a home determined to start the season with a bang.

        Sokratis was dominant in the air and on the deck, recovering possession on average once every seven minutes and 30 seconds, making a string of crucial clearances and his fair share of interceptions when required.

        Frankly that has been as much the story of this season with Sokratis as his errors. His second season in the Premier League has seen improvements in several key metrics. He is winning more aerial duels this term (4.3) than last (3.85) and at a higher success rate. He is blocking significantly more shots - a tally of nearly one a game reflecting how easy it is for teams to cut their way through to Arsenal's backline - and making 83% fewer fouls than last season.

        Last season Sokratis average a yellow card every 196 minutes in the top flight, roughly one every other game. Early in this term he has one in 775.

        If he is not quite as dominant as he was in his prime years at Borussia Dortmund then that ought not to be a surprise for a player now in his 30s. But remove that aberration against Watford from his copybook this season and there is very little to prompt questioning over Sokratis' form.

        In the 2-2 draw with Tottenham at the Emirates Stadium he was exceptional, winning eight of 10 defensive duels, many of which came against Heung-min Son at his most explosive and direct.

        The derby was a reminder of what Sokratis offers Arsenal that so few others in this side do. There is an impressive dark side to his defending, he is not afraid to bend the rules and stray close to conceding a foul if it allows him to make an impression on his opponent. Harry Kane can attest to that.

        For all the ball-playing skills of Rob Holding and David Luiz Arsenal need a centre-back capable of imposing his will on opposition attackers, a more old-school defender whose physical attributes can complement the more cerebral qualities of others in Unai Emery's backline. Sokratis is the sort of player who raises his game when the pressure is on.
        I would say Sokratis' strength is that dark side to his defending. That dark side is more like that of Puyol than of Ramos; he's very tough and he can get under an opponent's skin without being a thug. And you can see a lot of improvements in his game. He's not relying on his athleticism as much as he did before when he was more limber in his 20s. He's defending smarter these days.

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        • #34
          Part of the problem I think has always been who he's paired with. Him with Luiz is not a good fit because Luiz is far more careless and more prone to go foward. He and Hummels were perfect together at Dortmund because Hummels still maintained a defensive presence, and his passing was a touch better. I'm aware he was also much younger but you shouldn't be getting dumber as you age in football.

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          • #35
            Luiz is a bit cavalier, but then again so is Arsenal as a whole and with Luiz there is a better quality than what Arsenal had before with Mustafi. The problem with Arsenal is the midfield. Guendouzi and Torreira are still very young and need more experience before they can really command the pitch, but they have great potential. I think Guendouzi may one day force Pogba (if not Kante or Matuidi) out of France's starting midfield. Xhaka does more than he can and should. More than anything, he's a model for the younger two to use for their development.

            I think Arsenal are on a very good path, they have the potential to be the best team in England in maybe 3-5 years from now, but I don't see Sokratis having his contract renewed at the end of this season. His age is showing. I think they plan on letting him go on a free the season after. I think his career with Greece, whether he continues or not with the national team, will determine the level of ambition he seeks when he leaves Arsenal. He has signaled a desire to make big money outside of Europe and that he wanted to end his career with Greece after Euro 2020. It seems he has grown tired with the carousel of Greece managers and the EPO's general disregard.

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            • #36
              Arsenal are losing 0-1 to Brighton. Sokratis could perhaps have done better on the goal. He needs to be brave and throw his body into it. Maybe he gets the block, maybe not, but at least he's making the proper effort. Instead he sticks a leg out, very meekly. That just isn't enough.

              He got unlucky with the yellow for a non-existent foul, but he could have won the ball more authoritatively in the lead up to that moment. He's looking lethargic out there. On an early set-piece he got beat in the air, then on a similar play later he finally woke up and really made the effort to win the header, which he did. He's too asleep out there. He has to get his head in the game and concentrate.

              There was one play where Arsenal had Brighton pinned back into their end. Arsenal were on the front foot. As Arsenal spread the ball, Sokratis gets it in a decent position, he could even have made a run towards goal from where he was situation, but instead he shifts towards the right, sees his option is closely marked, he then turns back to escape the press, and plays it to Luiz who is back tracking into Arsenal's side of the pitch. The ball duly goes back to Leno and Arsenal are forced to get forward again from deep within their own half. Instead of pulling Brighton out and stretching them, Sokratis stretched Arsenal out defensively. Arsenal tried to build back up the pitch, they lose it in the middle because the whole team is playing asleep and everyone is on different pages. Brighton win the ball on the break and nearly scored if not for a very alert Kolasinac.

              On that play, I put the blame on Sokratis. He should not have dragged the play all the way like that. He has no confidence. This was a guy who used to love to run with the ball at his feet and he should have done it here, but he didn't. He's playing like a sheep waiting to be led to the slaughter.

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              • #37
                Sad to say but I think he's finished at Arsenal. We'd have him back at AEK in a heartbeat though.

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                • #38
                  His later years at dortmund is where he started regressing. Bad scouting from arsenal but then again when you have mustafi....

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                  • #39
                    He either makes a big money move abroad to the US/ME/China or sticks it out at a high level, probably on loan at a pay cut next season before he can leave on a free. He can come back to Greece in 3-5 years time if he wants. Greece will always be an option for him, but those other choices won't be.

                    Mislintat was technical director and he brought over several players from Dortmund. He brought Sokratis to Dortmund too. At Dortmund Sokratis provided pace and physique to balance out Hummels, who is much slower, but a more technically gifted footballer. Dortmund were simply drained under Klopp. You can only play so much football at such high an intensity. . I think Sokratis was mostly brought over as a stop-gap at Arsenal and to help Mavropanos.

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                    • #40
                      I saw the match with Manchester City. This was not a convincing win for them, despite the result. The difference came down to two players: De Bruyne and Ozil. One performed to his billing, the other did not. Ozil was often frustrated with his teammates, but has to stop expecting the ball on a silver platter. At one point he could have done something special. The keeper headed the ball up field and Ozil could have caught the keeper off his line, but instead Ozil choose to dribble and he immediately lost the ball. His crosses were decent, but not one of them found it's intended target. This is a player who seems more concerned about his fellow Muslims than the struggles of the club that pays him. If you're not playing to you're best, go out there and press, hustle. He doesn't even do that and he was subbed out after less than 70 minutes. Ljunberg is the caretaker coach. There's not a whole lot he can do to motivate Ozil at this point and at the same time Ozil has sort of star billing that makes it difficult for a caretaker to freeze him out of the first team with the support of the board. In my opinion, Ozil needs to sit on the bench and play 30 minutes at most with the sort of intensity that is lacking currently in his game.

                      Arsenal clearly lack confidence and the team struggles to function as a unit. There are too many young players lacking experience and discipline. Guendouzi and Torreira can't command their teammates. They can't give them stick. They can't tell Ozil or Aubameyang to press more. They're not Roy Keane.

                      On the first goal, Pepe and Guendouzi gave too much space to Fernandinho, who was playing as a CB. He puts the ball in to Jesus and Chambers lacks the turn of pace to get the ball despite having been in better position to cut it out. Jesus drop the shoulder and Chambers simply doesn't get close enough to him. Sokratis could have put a foot on it, but risked putting into this own net. He lets it run, De Bruyne shows his class with a great finish.

                      On the second, Pepe gives away the ball way up field with an ambitious through ball. City go the other way. Rodri has 3-4 players on him and plays a simple pass forward. Arsenals' midfield is now out of the picture. Torreira tries to win the ball with a desperate tackle, no doing. Sokratis presses up to fill the gap in the middle and now Chambers is isolated again. Arsenal have Maitland-Niles, Chambers and another player trying to stop De Bruyne, but he puts the ball across the goal, it takes a deflection, enough to leave Kolasinac going the wrong way, and Sterling gets the easiest of finishes.

                      Then later De Bruyne scores the third, going past Guendouzi as if he wasn't even there. He nearly scored a carbon copy of the goal minutes later, if not for Leno pushing the ball on to the post.

                      Sokratis wasn't really tested, but he looked capable of performing his defensive duties. His best moment came when he took De Bruyne head on. Of the Arsenal players, he was the only one who could manhandle him. Sokratis still has a lot of quality, but like Chambers he has no turn of pace. He's fast, but slow out of the block. He can't jump without a run-up. He's very strong and has a lot of experience. He's not like Caglar or Koulibaly, where he can play things a little more loose and make recovery runs like he used to. These days, he needs to be smarter in how he defends to avoid getting caught out or beat in the air.

                      On the ball, he has no confidence and he plays too many safe, predictable passes. At one point he played a pass back to Chambers. City nicked the ball off Chambers after he tried to dribble his way out and if not for Leno rushing off his line to make the save, City would have scored. He has to play more forward passes. He also has to carry it from time to time. Too often he looks to pass the ball when all he needs to do is use his frame to bully the opponent. He has to stop being scarred. Worse comes to worse, you look to win a foul. He does well instructing teammates, but on the ball he has to show more confidence. He's very strong and he can shield the ball well. He needs to carry it, use his body when he's under pressure rather than just look to pass the ball. This way more options will avail themselves too.

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                      • #41
                        I saw Iwobi the other day for Everton. How Arsenal could use him now. The way he's playing, hustling with non-stop pressing, that's what Arsenal need from their front three. Aubameyang's best moment came when he pressed Otamendi. Ljunberg has to get the star men to do this more. And midfield needs some steel. It needs someone who can instruct teammates and getting everyone pulling together. Boy Arsenal could sure use a Denis Zakaria, now at Mochengladbach. He and his Swiss teammate Xhaka would be great together. Add Guendouzi to that mix and you have a midfield next season.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Don Giovanni View Post
                          On the ball, he has no confidence and he plays too many safe, predictable passes. At one point he played a pass back to Chambers. City nicked the ball off Chambers after he tried to dribble his way out and if not for Leno rushing off his line to make the save, City would have scored. He has to play more forward passes. He also has to carry it from time to time. Too often he looks to pass the ball when all he needs to do is use his frame to bully the opponent. He has to stop being scarred. Worse comes to worse, you look to win a foul. He does well instructing teammates, but on the ball he has to show more confidence. He's very strong and he can shield the ball well. He needs to carry it, use his body when he's under pressure rather than just look to pass the ball. This way more options will avail themselves too.
                          So true, I feel he has somehow gone backwards in his game here and its effected his teams at both levels. Constant back passes, many times putting the other player under pressure. It was a big difference we saw in the NT with Hatzidiakos playing smart and good forward passes, again I am alittle puzzled how Sokratis can get worse at this given his experience but he has.

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                          • #43
                            Lack of confidence. He has to be willing to take risks and to live with the consequences. By contrast, on the second goal, Rodri of City took three players with him and played the simplest of passes to bypass Arsenal's midfield. Sometimes all it takes is a 10 yard pass deep within your own half to split a team apart. All he did was hold the ball, drew players, and then dictated an attack with a simple forward pass. Fernandinho, deputizing as a CB, did the same on the first goal. He carried the ball and then played a simple pass forward in behind Arsenal's defense. These passes didn't require exceptional skill, just a little bit of nerve and vision.

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                            • #44
                              https://www.agonasport.com/agonaspor...ty-or-an-asset

                              Good article.

                              I believe Sokratis isn’t the most talented CB but he has other qualities that make him the player he is. His speed and strength have helped him in his career. His aggressiveness and marking also.

                              On the ball is where he has the problem. In my opinion he is always been nervy with the ball and his passes aren’t up to standards. Even though he would take the ball and go for a run with it I’ve never felt safe with Sokratis with the ball at the back. He is just a no non sense defender who at best should just clear the ball.

                              Hatzidiakos is way more comfortable on the ball and is more of an effective player. He would’ve suited Emery style more than Sokratis. If you going to ball Sokratis then you would have to pair him with someone who is better at positioning and can play the ball. He is a more physical player than a ball playing expert. These days most defenders are more complete and can do what midfielders can do.

                              I think the old school type players like Sokratis are getting out of fashion and the game has adapted too much where these type of players can’t adapt to it themselves and the game have passed them by. I think Sokratis is more of a liability than asset for both club and country.

                              I’d rather have Retsos or Hatzidiakos for Greece.

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                              • #45
                                I like both Retsos and Hatzdiakos, but Sokratis brings a wealth of experience to the team. Here's a player who has been two Euros, two World Cups, has played in a European Cup final, has played Bundesliga, Series A, and EPL. We're not going to find another player like this easily. I wouldn't close the door on him.

                                The key for Greece lately hasn't been that we're better on the ball because we have better quality passers, we're better because we play with movement and width. We are no longer stagnant. It's not like before under Anastasiadis when the players were told to take to the field and just play. There's methodology now at work here to how we play the ball. That is what has changed for Greece.

                                As things stand, I can't see Sokratis continuing at Arsenal, but he has to remain an option for Greece if he can continue at a high enough level. Unless he leaves London for Riyadh, I wouldn't rule him out.

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