Manolas - Napoli

[Val]

I think teams of that level want a defender with an exceptional passing game, but by no means is Manolas' technique bad. He manages a ~87% pass completion rate and he averages about 40 passes a game. Those aren't hugely impressive numbers (Van Dijk hits ~90% on about 90 passes), but they're not bad either. I don't know where you get the impression he crumbles under pressure. He has good individual skill on the ball and a decent passing game--he's very cool under pressure:

If there is a major flaw in Manolas' game it's that he mopes and loses concentration at times. I do think he's a player better suited to less ambitious clubs. Arsenal is a good fit for him as was Roma. United are in similar shape to Arsenal now, but obviously a more ambitious club (for now). For him to play at Real or Juventus isn't necessarily out of reach, but he wouldn't be guaranteed a first team place. He'd be like Benatia at Juventus.

Napoli are the second strongest team in Italy. They beat Liverpool in the UCL last season. It's not a bad move, but a move to Arsenal or United for him would have been better.

I've seen the passes he makes, mostly short and for the most part without any pressure. I don't know what you consider 'good individual skill' but manolas for me is limited with the ball at his feet.

Prob not the best idea to use youtube clips to support your argument.

I agree about his concentration. It's a problem.

The elite clubs would've signed him a long time ago if he was of that tier they're looking for. Ending up at napoli, suggests i was right about him all along. Sure napoli is the 2nd best team in italy but there's a significant disparity between juve and the trailing pack led by napoli. What was it 10 points difference again this season?

I can't remember if it was this site or the older one, but i also said sokratis for similar reasons, will never end up at bayern. Off-course sokratis became a nonchalant defender at dortmund.

[Don Giovanni]

If Manolas can flick the ball up, juggle it, and then perform a bicycle kick to clear it, all the while with a Croatian player breathing down his neck, then I'd say Manolas has good enough individual skill to not panic on the ball. You can see it for yourself at the 50 second mark of the video I posted if you bothered to watch.

Prob not the best idea to use youtube clips to support your argument.

Actually, it is a good way to support an argument. I also pulled up stats. You didn't post anything to support yours. You made a statement, provided nothing to back it up, and then claimed you were right all along.

[Val]

If Manolas can flick the ball up, juggle it, and then perform a bicycle kick to clear it, all the while with a Croatian player breathing down his neck, then I'd say Manolas has good enough individual skill to not panic on the ball. You can see it for yourself at the 50 second mark of the video I posted if you bothered to watch.



Actually, it is a good way to support an argument. I also pulled up stats. You didn't post anything to support yours. You made a statement, provided nothing to back it up, and then claimed you were right all along.

And he can do that week in week out?

Youtube clips are not a good idea because they are highlight reels. Again at the risk of losing credibility, i suggest to not use them. The pass completion rate you posted, i already explained how he achieved that. Indeed i made a statement. It's my opinion of manolas after watching him over a significant period of time. I'm watching full matches mind you whereby i can study both his strengths and flaws. To back up what i'm saying, i'd have to post those games here and finding those reruns isn't easy unless it's an italian derby or a UCL game or an important qualifier. This was my go to website http://footballfullmatch.com/ but now i'm getting error messages.

[Dean97]

In my opinion I’m in between. He isn’t that great on the ball and he isn’t that bad. He is good enough to play at a bigger club than Napoli and Roma. He is fast, tall and reads the game well. He isn’t always going to put a striker on through goal as he has done it a couple of times. There is more advantages than disadvantages in Manolas game. His flaws are exactly what Don stayed. Sometimes he’s too casual and isn’t switched on at times. But he is mostly reliable and can save the team. He has gotten better as the years have gone by.

[Don Giovanni]

And he can do that week in week out?

Youtube clips are not a good idea because they are highlight reels. Again at the risk of losing credibility, i suggest to not use them. The pass completion rate you posted, i already explained how he achieved that. Indeed i made a statement. It's my opinion of manolas after watching him over a significant period of time. I'm watching full matches mind you whereby i can study both his strengths and flaws. To back up what i'm saying, i'd have to post those games here and finding those reruns isn't easy unless it's an italian derby or a UCL game or an important qualifier. This was my go to website http://footballfullmatch.com/ but now i'm getting error messages.

I shouldn't post clips to prove my point and instead I need to post entire matches? No, the opposite is true. And I did prove my point. How many other defenders you know can do that even once?

You're wrong to say Manolas can't handle players pressing him. 100% wrong. Manolas isn't an exceptional passer, but he's decent enough. And moreover, he plays with a lot of individual skill for a defender. Even in his AEK days he showed talent on the ball, an AEK fan could tell you that, but his passing game has only gotten at lot better in recent years since his move to Roma. It's a lot more natural now where before he deliberated too much. To argue he couldn't make it at Juventus or Real is preposterous.

Don't take my word for it. Capello and Cannavaro say he's exactly the kind of player these teams go for:

Capello, when asked about who the club should sign, said that "We would need a great central defender, which in the future could be Chiellini's heir. The most suitable would be Manolas, but I don't go into their strategies. In any case, you need to know how to make wine with the grapes available, and champagne comes out with Juve players. Indeed, it is better to speak of Italian products."

Fabio Cannavaro believes Kostas Manolas and Kalidou Koulibaly could allow Napoli “to go all the way in the Champions League.”

Manolas appears to have made his choice, even with interest from Juventus and Milan, and Sky Sport Italia report Amadou Diawara has accepted a move to Roma as part of the €36m deal.

“If Napoli really want a step up in quality, they need to do it with Manolas,” 2006 Ballon d’Or winner Cannavaro told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

“The Greece international in a partnership with Koulibaly would be exceptional. They both know how to defend deep or higher up the pitch, from close quarters or when forwards run at them. They’re excellent in one-on-one situations.

“With two players like that, you can afford to commit more men in attack and create better scoring opportunities.

“The big clubs with centre-backs who have these characteristics can go all the way in the Champions League. I’m talking about Virgil van Dijk at Liverpool, Sergio Ramos and Raphael Varane at Real Madrid, while Ajax came so close with Matthijs de Ligt.”

Roma came close too in 2018 with Manolas scoring a header against Barcelona.

[Val]

I shouldn't post clips to prove my point and instead I need to post entire matches? No, the opposite is true. And I did prove my point. How many other defenders you know can do that even once?

You're wrong to say Manolas can't handle players pressing him. 100% wrong. Manolas isn't an exceptional passer, but he's decent enough. And moreover, he plays with a lot of individual skill for a defender. Even in his AEK days he showed talent on the ball, an AEK fan could tell you that, but his passing game has only gotten at lot better in recent years since his move to Roma. It's a lot more natural now where before he deliberated too much. To argue he couldn't make it at Juventus or Real is preposterous.

Don't take my word for it. Capello and Cannavaro say he's exactly the kind of player these teams go for:





Roma came close too in 2018 with Manolas scoring a header against Barcelona.

Here's what i'm thinking. Either you don't watch enough games or your understanding isn't strong. I see you've used quotes but actions speak louder than words. He will be playing for napoli next season and not juve or another giant i think it's mainly because of what I've articulated above.

[Don Giovanni]

Says the guy who watches a few of the big matches from a website that doesn't work. Ok. I'll post a video breaking down Manolas' performance when I get the time because apparently your understanding is stronger than Capello's, who suggested that Manolas could potentially have been the heir to Chiellini.

[Amorgos]

Have to agree with Don on this one, Manolas doesn’t just loft the ball forward at all, I’ve seen plenty Roma games and he has many touches and plays the ball out fine

[Val]

Says the guy who watches a few of the big matches from a website that doesn't work. Ok. I'll post a video breaking down Manolas' performance when I get the time because apparently your understanding is stronger than Capello's, who suggested that Manolas could potentially have been the heir to Chiellini.

I wouldn't be posting if I've only seen a few big matches. I've watched a lot of roma, even against the lesser sides, though these games are mostly unavailable as re-runs because they don't generate as much interest.

[Don Giovanni]

Actions speak louder than words, as you put it, so here it is. Let's look at how Manolas fared against the best side at forcing turnovers in the Series A, Atalanta. You can visit this website to download the full match of Roma's most recent encounter with them:

http://forum.rojadirecta.es/showthre...oma-27-01-2019

Below is a clip I uploaded myself. It is the only moment of the game Manolas is under any kind of real pressure. Literally the only time:

What are the takeaways here?

Firstly, Manolas shows his class and experience as a defender to nudge Zapata's back as the ball arrives from the air. That nudge keeps Zapata grounded, unable to jump for the ball. It also allows Manolas to dictate who receives the ball: himself. It's very clever.

Secondly, Manolas shows good skill bringing the ball down and playing it into space. He doesn't hesitate at all and knows exactly what to do with the ball the moment he receives it. He was bringing down a ball hit from 60 yards out, at pace, while having to compete with a player of Zapata's quality for it. Most defenders would have just headed the ball away the moment they got sight of it, but Manolas brought it down and under his control. So Manolas shows that he's not the average defender and is willing to play the ball at his feet instead of just swatting it away.

Thirdly, despite the pressure Zapata immediately puts on Manolas once he has the ball at his feet, he remains cool and collected. He's under intense pressure at that moment. Far from panicking, he bides his time on the ball while assessing his options. He quickly decides to play a very difficult forward pass while barely having a chance to take a look up and with little space to really play it through. He's having to pass the ball at 180 degrees from the direction he was moving with the ball. There's nothing easy about what he does there. That was a very difficult pass to make, but he completed it no less. Another defender would have been content to have put the ball out of bounds himself or back to his keeper, but here Manolas shows that under pressure he can play possession-based football, even against Atalanta, the team with the best offense and most effective pressing game in Series A.

Like the commentator says at the end of the clip, "I like the look of him--Manolas. He's very composed."

[Val]

At some point we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Again, if manolas could do that on a regular basis, i wouldn't be here arguing but he can't - which is a reflection of his limitation on the ball. You're entitled to your opinion, as i am to mine. I've seen plenty of games, which is why i wanted to share my thoughts. If you notice, i rarely post in the NT threads and that's because i don't watch the ethniki, i find them unbearable, so if i don't watch then my opinion doesn't count for much.

[Don Giovanni]

You said he can't cope with being pressed. I proved the complete opposite and you now say we have to "agree to disagree." That's a cop out. And you're moving the goalposts by saying he can't do it on a regular basis, which is still not true. It's rare Manolas is ever dispossessed of the ball. And with a pass completion rate of 88%, you're going to suggest he gives the ball away cheaply? So again, the opposite is true.

Capello wasn't talking out of his ass when he said that Manolas could have been Chiellini's heir. And if Juventus fail to sign De Ligt, who may go to Barcelona yet, they will regret not having signed Manolas. Chiellini is on the wrong side of 35 and with options like Rugani and the Turk Demiral to step in his stead, they're looking very short of a defender of Manolas' quality or better.

[Val]

How are you not understanding? IMO on balance, he is limited on the ball. Proved it? You've posted highlight plays. What about all the times his control has let him down? My bet is you're not going to find these uploaded by his fan boys. How many roma games have you seen? You bring up the pass completion rate yet again. I've already explained, it's high because he is passing a lot within a few metres without any pressure. I'm just repeating myself, as are you, hence why i said let's "agree to disagree.''

I don't care what capello said. In the end the juve recruiters probably felt the price tag was a bit much for manolas, especially considering his limitations. They can roll with what they have and develop demiral who they picked up for half of what they would've paid for manolas. I saw him in the qualifiers against France and Iceland and before that against AC and napoli playing for Sassuolo. I plan to watch a lot more of him but since we are on the subject, in contrast to manolas, he seems better on the ball.

[Don Giovanni]

You don't watch Greece play, but you watch Turkey? Merih Demiral is Juventus' forth, arguably fifth string CB behind Bonucci, Chiellini, and Rugani. Even Emre Can is likelier to start at CB than Merih given the options Juventus have in the middle. It's like saying Mavropanos is a better than Manolas.

I proved my point. You haven't done anything to prove yours. And I didn't cherry pick the clip, it was the only time in that match to Atalanta he was pressed while on the ball. Not just any opponent, but the one with the best pressing game in Italy. I posted links to the match, so you're more than free to dig through the game and to find evidence to the contrary. I can assure you there is none.

You're asking how many games I've seen Roma this season. I posted about a performance of his earlier in the season against Chievo, and I touched upon his smart passing:

Manolas, for his efforts, looked solid all throughout. He's a hard player to beat. He also showed some of his acumen in the attack. On the opening goal, he played a smart ball, one-touch, out of the back to Florenzi on the wing, who drove the ball across to the far post for El-Shawary to score. They say God is in the details and this is one of those little things that make a difference in the end. Chievo was not expecting Manolas to make that pass, at least not that quickly, and it opened the play for Roma before Chievo had a proper chance to clear their lines and readjust themselves once Roma had pull the play back.

I also wrote this:

I'd say Manolas has three options in front of him: Atletico, United and Arsenal. Barcelona, Real and Juventus aren't realistic for him.

I'm not delusional about the guy. I never declared that he's Beckenbauer or something, but at Juventus he would have been good enough to sign for them. To suggest otherwise is flatly wrong, but in saying that he would have been third string, behind Bonucci and Chiellini. He'd have to bide his time until Chiellini retired (hence why Capello said Manolas could be his heir) and even then there was no guarantee, as was seen with Benatia before him. The Italians prefer Italians, not Turks, not Greeks, not Moroccans. Capello also said this, if you bothered to care, but apparently none of that matters. Even though he has much more authority to speak with than you or I.

The same goes for Real and Barcelona. He's not guaranteed to start at those clubs and for Manolas he'd be competing with World Cup winners and Spaniards/Catalans for a place. For a Greece international, good luck with that. But don't slag the guy and say he's not good enough. He is good enough and easily among the world's best in his position. Cannavaro rates him highly enough to help Napoli mount a run to the Champions League final. Those aren't light words.

Also, the fact is he was very close to a move to Juventus, until Juventus decided to go all in for De Ligt: https://www.sportime.gr/bloggers/age...o-mino-raiola/

Now they might not even get De Ligt who looks like he may go to Barcelona instead (as he should). Since Juventus screwed up with De Ligt, they will need to pull Can into the CB role next season or start Rugani, neither of whom are better central defenders than Manolas. Merih will be lucky to get minutes next season.

The fact remains that Manolas is a lot better on the ball than you give him credit for being. You completely write him off. How many other defenders can juggle the ball and bicycle it for a clearance while all the while having someone pressed right up to their backs, with nowhere to go at the corner flag. You question if he can do that week in, week out, but how many can even do that once? Maybe you wouldn't have seen it because he did it in a Greece jersey. Something tells me you won't find any clips of the Turk your so fond of doing that in any of his "fanboy highlight reels."

[Val]

You don't watch Greece play, but you watch Turkey?
I don’t know if you’re strictly talking football here or you’re alluding to the history b/n the two nations.

I haven’t seen the turks play since the euros in 08 where they had a nice run to the semis. Before that it was 02, where again they made semis. Two years earlier you had galatasaray led by hagi who was in his twilight years, lift the uefa cup. They were a great watch and this is my expectation if I’m sitting to watch a game.

I can’t sit through 90min, watching guys struggling to string two passes together. Some of our guys aren’t even footballers in my eyes. For instance the likes of zeca and bakakis are athletes that chose to take up football. I guess they didn’t have great career advisers because they are more suited to track.

The Turkish team has drifted into obscurity since 08 but now they have some nice talent coming through and I’m intrigued. I wish this was the situation with the ethniki but it isn’t. But I understand why you watch. It’s because the seed has long been planted. I get it, that used to be me but I can’t stomach much more.

Regarding Merih Demiral, I never said he’s better than manolas. I said he seems better on the ball. If one day, his defending translates whereby it’s effective on the highest stage, especially considering his passing range, juve may just have themselves world class ball playing CB.

Again you say that I haven’t proven my point when I’ve already explained that I watch games and when I feel that I’ve seen enough to draw conclusions, I voice my opinions. You may not agree with them but it’s a forum.

Again the reason I don’t pay attention to quotes is because actions speak louder. In the end of the day the juve recruiters who are up to date with the current game at its highest tier decided against signing manolas. Capello hasn’t been relevant since 07 which was the last time he coached at club level. Now he’s in China. Obviously his thoughts matter more than yours and mine but he doesn’t have more authority to speak over the current juve coaches.

Same goes for Cannavaro who’s also in China. Napoli might make a run but I don’t think it will be all the way to the UCL final. Those honours usually go to an exclusive group of European clubs and Napoli isn’t one of them. They need signings that move the needle, manolas doesn’t do that for me.

I’m not writing him off. I just think he’s limited. In other words I don’t want to have to worry about losing the ball against a good pressing side.

Also regarding the bicycle kick, he isn’t pressed up against where the two adjacent lines meet (go back and watch it). In other words, there’s sufficient space to get around his defender. If he’s as good as you say, he should be able to dribble out of that situation especially against kalinic of all people. Go look at what the best sides do in those situations. Have a look at ajax. They try to play out of those situations because they value possession. I know you’re trying to articulate whatever skill you think he has but you’re looking at it all wrong. You need to be asking, Why he hasn’t attempted to keep the ball? He ends up clearing the ball and most likely giving it back to Croatia. I’m not surprised though because this is a flawed mentality and a bad habit greek footballers inherit playing in Greece. The slightest sign of pressure, just hike the ball forward. It’s a coaching issue and our player’s skill on the ball suffers as a result. Manolas is a good example.