Manolas - Napoli

[Don Giovanni]

Go to marks 1:00 and 3:55. That's against Croatia in the same match where he did that bicycle clearance. You'll see Manolas do exactly what you say he can't do: dribble out of trouble. If you said his passing was not exceptional, fine, but to say he is limited on the ball is complete nonsense. He's good on the ball, but he's not Beckenbauer on it either.

You have not provided a shred of evidence to suggest Manolas can't play with the ball at his feet when under pressure. None. I've provided ample to the contrary. You're wrong about Manolas. 100% wrong.

I saw him in the qualifiers against France and Iceland and before that against AC and napoli playing for Sassuolo. I plan to watch a lot more of him but since we are on the subject, in contrast to manolas, he seems better on the ball.

I haven’t seen the turks play since the euros in 08 where they had a nice run to the semis.

You stopped watching the Turks in 2008, but then you saw them against Iceland and France recently. Nothing wrong with watching Turkey play, but this is a Greek football forum, not a Turkish one. And if you're going to claim a 19 year old Turk is better on the ball than arguably the best Greek defender ever, then think a lot more carefully about what you're suggesting. I don't think Merih has ever shown anywhere near the same skill that Manolas showed on that bicycle clearance. That took a lot of skill and coolness to pull that off. So you're wrong on that count of Merih too.

[Dean97]

I’m not trying to pick sides or anything but i think this video favours Dons point also about Manolas on the ball. Have a look at the 2.27 mark of the video. I haven’t seen a top level defender be that skillful in such tight space and give a pass right after it. I remember watching this and thinking wow and I didn’t know he was capable of that. I know it’s an old video but i guess it still gets the point across.

https://youtu.be/Psk_VRz0Mjw

[Don Giovanni]

Manolas is good enough to play at any club. The problem is at a Real Madrid, Juventus or Barcelona he's second fiddle to more established players and he'd be competing for a place. He'd have to bide his time. Realistically, he would not make the grade at these clubs, just like what happened to Benatia at Juventus.

The fact is Juventus were considering a move for him, but went all in for De Ligt instead once that option became available to them. What Capello said was exactly what Juventus was thinking. They wanted in Manolas an heir to Chiellini, now they have have that in De Ligt. The only difference is De Ligt will start ahead of Bonucci, whereas Bonucci would have started ahead of Manolas had he signed instead.

[Val]

Go to marks 1:00 and 3:55. That's against Croatia in the same match where he did that bicycle clearance. You'll see Manolas do exactly what you say he can't do: dribble out of trouble. If you said his passing was not exceptional, fine, but to say he is limited on the ball is complete nonsense. He's good on the ball, but he's not Beckenbauer on it either.

You have not provided a shred of evidence to suggest Manolas can't play with the ball at his feet when under pressure. None. I've provided ample to the contrary. You're wrong about Manolas. 100% wrong.

You stopped watching the Turks in 2008, but then you saw them against Iceland and France recently. Nothing wrong with watching Turkey play, but this is a Greek football forum, not a Turkish one. And if you're going to claim a 19 year old Turk is better on the ball than arguably the best Greek defender ever, then think a lot more carefully about what you're suggesting. I don't think Merih has ever shown anywhere near the same skill that Manolas showed on that bicycle clearance. That took a lot of skill and coolness to pull that off. So you're wrong on that count of Merih too.

I’m wrong? Why because you say so?

My evidence isn’t easily attainable because it’s full match replays. For some reason, you’ve failed to understand this.

I’m talking about on balance with everything I’ve seen, I think he is limited on the ball. Again, you’ve failed to understand this.

The highlight plays you base your argument on, are exactly these, they’re highlights. That would be like me uploading and posting only his bloopers and woopsies, every time his control lets him down, to make my point. Take it how you want but i think it's fruitless because it doesn't tell the whole story.

Thus, I watch full games and once I think I’ve seen enough to draw conclusions, I share my thoughts, just like I’ve done now.

Nothing wrong with watching Turkey play

Nothing wrong with watching turkey play? Then why did you post this:

You don't watch Greece play, but you watch Turkey?

You clearly have an issue here so have some integrity.

I’m aware of the nature of the forum. You’re the one that brought up Merih Demiral and btw i wrote this about him:

I plan to watch a lot more of him but since we are on the subject, in contrast to manolas, he seems better on the ball.

first impressions dude, calm down

[Don Giovanni]

I’m wrong? Why because you say so?

Not because I simply say so. I posted a full match replay. And it was easy to find. I also provided evidence by uploading a clip from that match myself to YouTube to support my claim. I didn't just pick any game either. This is exactly the kind of match you would expect Manolas to crumble under pressure, but he doesn't.

The only person who's integrity should be in question is yours. You said you stopped watching the Turks in 2008, but you also said you had recently seen Turkey play against Iceland and France. Clearly you're lying about the matches you watch and you're claiming to have seen matches you haven't.

We know this because you had to correct yourself and admit to having stopped watching Turkey play since 2008. You also said you haven't seen Greece play, meaning you didn't even watch Greece against Turkey recently. You said you saw Turkey against Iceland and France, but not against Greece. Clearly there is something wrong with this picture you painted.

I think you're lying when you claim to have seen Manolas at Roma. You wouldn't say he was not good enough on the ball if you had bothered to watch him at all. You wouldn't say he couldn't dribble past players or keep his cool under pressure if you had bothered to watch.

My evidence isn’t easily attainable because it’s full match replays.

To back up what i'm saying, i'd have to post those games here and finding those reruns isn't easy unless it's an italian derby or a UCL game or an important qualifier. This was my go to website http://footballfullmatch.com/ but now i'm getting error messages.

In other words, you have no evidence. But nevertheless, I managed to do exactly what you couldn't do.

And the issue isn't that you watch Turkey, it's that you claim to watch Turkey and not Greece. Yet you later admit you haven't seen Turkey play since 2008, you admit you haven't seen Greece lately, and I think you haven't really seen Manolas play for Roma because you wouldn't claim he was not good enough on the ball if you had seen him play. You're worse than wrong, you're a liar.

[Val]

Not because I simply say so. I posted a full match replay. And it was easy to find. I also provided evidence by uploading a clip from that match myself to YouTube to support my claim. I didn't just pick any game either. This is exactly the kind of match you would expect Manolas to crumble under pressure, but he doesn't.

The only person who's integrity should be in question is yours. You said you stopped watching the Turks in 2008, but you also said you had recently seen Turkey play against Iceland and France. Clearly you're lying about the matches you watch and you're claiming to have seen matches you haven't.

We know this because you had to correct yourself and admit to having stopped watching Turkey play since 2008. You also said you haven't seen Greece play, meaning you didn't even watch Greece against Turkey recently. You said you saw Turkey against Iceland and France, but not against Greece. Clearly there is something wrong with this picture you painted.

I think you're lying when you claim to have seen Manolas at Roma. You wouldn't say he was not good enough on the ball if you had bothered to watch him at all. You wouldn't say he couldn't dribble past players or keep his cool under pressure if you had bothered to watch.

In other words, you have no evidence. But nevertheless, I managed to do exactly what you couldn't do.

And the issue isn't that you watch Turkey, it's that you claim to watch Turkey and not Greece. Yet you later admit you haven't seen Turkey play since 2008, you admit you haven't seen Greece lately, and I think you haven't really seen Manolas play for Roma because you wouldn't claim he was not good enough on the ball if you had seen him play. You're worse than wrong, you're a liar.

Easy find? If you google full matches, that website you provided doesn’t come up. And you posted a link to one full match replay, that being Atalanta – Roma. I know why you used atalanta but I suggest you go back and watch a lot more games before drawing conclusions.

Corrected myself?

I stopped watching turkey after the 2008 euros because they started stinking it up. I saw them against France and Iceland because I was/am intrigued with the new talent coming through. I already explained this but it seems that your comprehension levels aren’t strong. Instead you go on the attack calling me a liar.

The Turkish team has drifted into obscurity since 08 but now they have some nice talent coming through and I’m intrigued.

I didn’t watch Turkey V Greece because firstly it was a friendly and secondly it was against Greece. In other words I can’t stomach watching our guys play. I already explained myself as to why I don’t watch Greece.

I can’t sit through 90min, watching guys struggling to string two passes together. Some of our guys aren’t even footballers in my eyes. For instance the likes of zeca and bakakis are athletes that chose to take up football. I guess they didn’t have great career advisers because they are more suited to track.

You can think what you want but since we’re on the subject here’s what I think. I think you’re a big fan of his and dare I say being he’s a fellow countryman that has had some success, there's extra incentive, thus you are willing to overlook his short comings with the ball at his feet. You’ve seen him show some skill and it has left you blind to the times his skill has let him down and what this means in the grand scheme of things.

[Don Giovanni]

I see you edited your post to now say you know why I picked Atalanta. Before you edited it, you said you didn't know why. Ok. How many matches should I post to prove my point? And tell me which opponents. I will find you the matches.

[Val]

I started responding to your first paragraph before my attention was directed to the nonsense you typed about me lying about the matches I watch. You said I corrected myself which isn’t true. I explained why I stopped watching the turks. I explained why I recently started again. You assumed I was lying about watching turkey of late because I didn’t watch the friendly with Greece, even though I had previously explained why I don’t watch Greece. The quotes from my previous posts are there. You’ve seen them and chosen not to acknowledge them (evidently why your post is so short) because you know you were in the wrong for making assumptions and now your reaching about edited posts which I can assure you are a result of grammar errors or incomplete responses due to forgetting to respond to every bit of drivel you’ve written (especially your last post). I don’t mean to take this tone with you but you’ve already accused me of lying.

It doesn’t matter how many matches you post. You’re not changing my mind. I’ve seen enough and I’m confident in my interpretation. Did I not agree with you about his concentration? To elaborate he has a tendency of losing his man. Did I oppose you saying he isn’t an exceptional passer? I only ask because you think I don’t watch games. I’ve watched him since his AEK days. He has improved his ball technique since moving abroad (I’ll give you this) which is a testament to the coaches and overall work ethic over there but simply not enough. In other words he’s still limited. He was never a natural though and you can only really work with what you had to start off with.

[Don Giovanni]

And you're interpretation is confident in saying that Manolas also has a tendency to lose his man?

When I said he loses concentration, a good example was in the match to Italy. On the first goal Italy scored, Belotti made easy work of Manolas. Not because Belotti was too quick or because he shimmied his way past Manolas with a clever dribble, but because Manolas turned off.

We all know Manolas has the quality to strip Belotti of the ball or at least put him off balance, but Manolas didn't challenge Belotti. It's not that he lost Belotti, he simply lost his concentration. He wasn't focused on the task at hand. He sulked because he felt the manager was setting up the team to fail rather than taking charge himself and trying everything he could to make up for the imbalances in the team. He allowed himself to be too distracted and unfocused when it mattered.

The fact is Manolas is an excellent man-marker. He's got good skill on the ball and clearly his passing ability is good enough to meet the requirements for Roma and Napoli, two teams that play possession-based football. But if I can hold anything against him it's that he mopes and he's not always switched on, but not in the way you suggest.

[Dean97]

Manolas scored his first goal for Napoli.

[Val]

@ Don Giovanni

Perhaps tendency is too strong of a word but I have seen it enough to bring it up. I think he can be nonchalant at times and in addition to what you described, it can also result in him losing his closest assignment. Mind you, I’m trying to exclude the times, the protection in front of the defence hasn’t been there and he has been caught in two minds.

[Don Giovanni]

The concern for Manolas, in terms of making it to the top, is would he have had the ability to keep his concentration from the bench and avoid the kind of silly mistake Benatia made that cost Juventus the game against Real Madrid? That's why Benatia was sold in the end. To make it at a top club, he needs to bid his time, be able to concentrate from the bench, and not make those mistakes. That's the concern for him and his concentration levels.

The other issue is temperament. Bonucci sulked when Juventus lost the UCL final and that was why Juventus agreed to sell him to Milan before opting to buy him back at the start of this past season. And even now Juventus prefer De Ligt to Bonucci. Manolas' temperament in this respect is a well known problem, so much so that even De Laurentiis, the owner for Napoli, made mention of it.

Few, if any defenders are better than him and that's the truth, but to replace a player like Chiellini, the captain of Juventus, he'd have to bid his time and the concern for him then would be one of temperament and concentration. His ability on the ball is good enough to make the grade at Napoli, so there's no reason why it wouldn't be good enough for Juventus.

There was a rational even at Barcelona to sign him because he was seen as the perfect antidote to Cristiano in addition to how well he had performed against them. Manolas is one of the few defenders who can neutralize him. So good was Manolas that Atletico wanted him to replace Godin, who in my mind was the world's best defender for much of the past five seasons.

He deserves more credit than you have be willing to give him.

I think now he will have settle down at Napoli. They're a good club capable of competing at the highest level. I would have loved to have seen Manolas at a better or more historic club, but it just didn't pan out for him. Who knows, maybe Napoli can win the UCL if they make a couple more big moves in the market. With Ancelotti as coach, they may just do it. It would be nice to see a Greek win the UCL and/or Series A title. Manolas would be one of the very few Greeks to compete for such trophies.

[Val]

Ambitious president, though for the time being, it’s difficult for Napoli to compete with the big boys. Apart from the obvious, history and prestige are against them, weight of shirt not as heavy. Also their stadium isn’t intimidating. They’d be amongst the favourites for the Europa league. Getting bounced by Leipzig was more down to wrong place, wrong timing than a true reflection of things.

[Don Giovanni]

Despite conceding three to Juventus, Manolas was among the best players on the pitch. He pulled a goal back with the game standing at 3-0, only minutes after Cristiano had scored the third, giving hope to Napoli of a comeback. He likes to get tight to players and Juventus were clearly wise to it, especially Matuidi who habitually made one-touch or quickly taken passes, often without looking up, in order to get the ball out of his feet before Manolas had a proper chance to challenge him. I thought Manolas was a bit unlucky on the second goal when Matuidi managed to sneak one such pass through his legs and onto Higuain, who then managed to turn Koulibaly a little too easily.

His defensive partner, Koulibaly, looked a little worse for wear. He starred for Senegal as they finished runner-up in the CAFs and looked like he could use a vacation. I felt he was unlucky with the own goal that cost his team the tie, a cruel bounce off his shin that just so happened to be deflected into the top corner of his own goal in the very last minute of play, but he was a little off throughout the game and on the second goal he could hardly be afforded any excuses. You can't get turned like that inside the box. Higuain is a talented player who has once more returned to form under Sarri, whom he played under at both Napoli and then Chelsea. I think he knows Koulibaly's weaknesses being that the two worked together when Higuain was previously at Napoli.

De Ligt, who was making his competitive debut for Juventus and was signed in lieu of Manolas, had a very poor game. All three goals Juventus conceded were wholly his fault. He lost Manolas on the first, he was aloof when Lozano scored on the second (similarly to what we saw when Cristiano scored against Ajax last season in Amsterdam), and then on the third he was again beaten to the ball on a set-piece, this time by Di Lorenzo. In fact, he made mistake on the foul that resulted in the free-kick for the third goal and which forced Alex Sandro to pick-up a yellow. De Ligt will need time to adjust to life in Italy, no questions there.

Bonucci gave a good account of himself, as expected, and suffered for his troubles with an elbow to the face that left a nasty gash, but he too was arguably culpable on the first goal being that he could perhaps have done more to deny Manolas the header.

With Chiellini out injured for at least six months, I think Juventus will drop points. Had he played, I think Juventus would have ran out 3-0 winners. It would have been no contest. It goes to show you the value of a quality CB and I think Manolas isn't too far behind Chiellini in terms of providing that sense of leadership and composure to his team. He's steadily getting there and the goal he scored was exactly the shot in the arm Napoli needed to get back into the game.

[Don Giovanni]