Turkey

[Reaper]

100%.

Sadly the Greek leadership needed an IQ in excess of 100 to realise staying neutral in Libya will bring the same result as backing Turkey/GNA. That IQ wasn't there, so Greece stayed neutral and now the stakes are high for the sea of Crete. Turkey took a major gamble in Libya. They were completely exposed miles from home. It was an Ottoman expeditionary force using Syrian kids as their famed bashi bazouks. However Greece has helped Turkey pull victory from the jaws of defeat by ignoring Haftar/Egypt's pleas for assistance. Not a soldier offered, not even a hand gun. Nothing. Cities were lost by the LNA yesterday because they couldnt handle Turkey's drones and around 400 Syrian/ Chadian jihadi teenagers lead by Turk officers.

UN, EU, NATO etc all see Turkush expansion as a positive. France as I stated earlier was bluffing. Italy is - as it has been for close to 600 years now - pro Ottoman.

[Don Giovanni]

We needed to take command of Operation Irini. This is a failure on our part.

Even Qatar is now waking up to the threat of Erdogan's Turkey:

https://www.memri.org/reports/dissid...ident-erdogan-

Sheikh Fahad bin Abdullah Al-Thani, a cousin and persistent critic of Qatari Emir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al-Thani, wrote in an article titled "Erdogan Tightens His Grip On Qatar" that the Qatari regime had transformed the country into a Turkish vassal. Fahad claimed that by submitting to the neo-Ottoman yoke of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Qatar was rejecting the legacy of the Arabs' struggle to liberate themselves from Ottoman rule. Erdogan, he warned, would not rest until he had transformed Qatar into Turkey's first colony and had the Qataris speaking Turkish. The article appeared in the Saudi-based Arab News.

Mitsotakis needs to speak up and get the world on this page. Speak up man!

[Filikieteria1821]

You can see Turkey's influence on Qatar through Al Jazeera, as well.

There was a story come out recently that Kastellorizo was under Turkish control

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/04/2...ganda-article/

and now its being reported that a turk fired 50+ shots at a german and greek officer at the evros border

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/05/0...tectors-again/

[Reaper]

If a German was killed at the border by that Turk, I wonder how Germany/ EU would sweep it under the table.

[Filikieteria1821]

German media would probably say that a german was caught in the middle of exchanging fire between greek and turkish forces, and we would again be looked at as the ugly step child of the EU, while the turks are praised

[Don Giovanni]

Qatar is in bed with Turkey. Historically, the Arabs used the Ottomans as slaves and mercenaries, then the Arabs became puppets to the Ottomans as they gained ascendancy within Islam. This little fact isn't lost on the Arabs who continue to see the Ottomans as rivals or as in Qatar's case, their mercenaries.

France is making efforts to curtail the Turks even as the Italians, with their German friends, continue to dither:

https://www.libyaobserver.ly/news/af...peration-irini

France is doing this mission without waiting for the start of the European Union's Operation IRINI, adding that CAE firm is also involved on supporting Khalifa Haftar's military operations in Derna two years ago, according to the report.

Africa Intelligence added that the surveillance of ships should be done by Operation IRINI, which didn't get the needed resources to start work.

EU's High Representative Josep Borrell hinted last month that IRINI was a failure as it didn't have the needed capabilities to kick off work despite being launched early in the same month in an attempt to monitor the implementation of arms embargo in Libya, yet it came under fire by Libyan officials of the Government of National Accord as it didn't include monitoring the eastern region's borders, from which arms are being provided to Haftar's forces.

The Head of the Presidential Council Fayez Al-Sarraj rejected Operation IRINI on April 23 in a letter to the Security Council and European Parliament.

[JVC]

We needed to take command of Operation Irini. This is a failure on our part.

Even Qatar is now waking up to the threat of Erdogan's Turkey:

https://www.memri.org/reports/dissid...ident-erdogan-



Mitsotakis needs to speak up and get the world on this page. Speak up man!

This is good news for Greece, and the right strategy IMO....let Turkey over extend and increase regional hatred against them. Remember they're not a super power. Now with the economics of Covid 19....Turkey will be reeling soon!!! Very bad timing and a very stupid decision on their part.

[Don Giovanni]

We have not done anything to dissuade Turkey and the truth is they have turned the tide enough in Libya to carve a little part that preserves Turkey's interests in the Mediterranean. Any prospect of a peace settlement in Libya has been termed on those interests. Now Turkey is agitating for conflict over our islands in the Aegean. We have to make preparations for war and this applies in Libya too. At some point we'll need enter that conflict and the longer we make it wait, the more we may lose out.

[JVC]

We have not done anything to dissuade Turkey and the truth is they have turned the tide enough in Libya to carve a little part that preserves Turkey's interests in the Mediterranean. Any prospect of a peace settlement in Libya has been termed on those interests. Now Turkey is agitating for conflict over our islands in the Aegean. We have to make preparations for war and this applies in Libya too. At some point we'll need enter that conflict and the longer we make it wait, the more we may lose out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...shadow-of-lira

Bloomberg predicts depression in Turkey to last 3 years. Their economy will keep shrinking well after the coronavirus pandemic. It will not be long before we see civil war in Turkey. Let them continue to run their resources thin. ISRAEL IS ON THE LOOKOUT!!! They're about to implode, we should stay course. We hit them hard when the time is right!

Greece has won the war my friends....we turned our economy around, and have gained confidence in the world markets. Second we have closed the borders on the refugees and nobody can say anything against that....the pandemic gives us the right to deny refugees long term, while Turkey cannot control their borders. Trust me Turkey is in a world of trouble!

[Reaper]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...shadow-of-lira

Bloomberg predicts depression in Turkey to last 3 years.

That wont affect their expansionist policies. They are willing to sacrifice anything for expansion.

[JVC]

That wont affect their expansionist policies. They are willing to sacrifice anything for expansion.

Let them risk....there's no way they step foot into Greece. Right now they're getting involved in war stricken countries. I would love to see a hundred thousand troops in Syria, and continue to move thousands more into Arab land....while the western world including us wait to celebrate their demise. You need money to sustain expansion.

Before the pandemic Turkey had a %18 percent unemployment rate....their inflation was around %12 percent yearly. Total debts to GDP were 800 billion us. Their military budget of 13 billion yearly will need to be cut back to around 9 billion so they don't start defaulting world markets. Those my friend are very gruesome numbers....and I'm sitting back watching them fuck themselves!!!

[Reaper]

Let them risk....

They will.

there's no way they step foot into Greece.

That is not how they operate. Firstly they start taking oil/gas deposits from greek seas. Then further humiliations. Taking actual Greek land is further down the tracks.

It is like the Nazis. They didn't just round up all the jews and deport them. It was a process. First identifying jews in any town/city. Marching them in public early in the morning. Humiliating them. Then dumping them in ghettos. Then finally deporting those left to camps. The Turks plan is going very well - with full help from idiots like Dora.

You need money to sustain expansion.

Western countries think like that. Not Turkic. They are willing to make citizens poorer to expand. They have not changed in 1000 years. They even sacrifice their own troops to get sympathetic headlines like in Idlib where they put their own soldiers in the way of Russian missiles knowing they would die.

Before the pandemic Turkey had a %18 percent unemployment rate....their inflation was around %12 percent yearly. Total debts to GDP were 800 billion us. Their military budget of 13 billion yearly will need to be cut back to around 9 billion so they don't start defaulting world markets. Those my friend are very gruesome numbers....and I'm sitting back watching them fuck themselves!!!

They don't care. Simple as that. They are not Western and there will always be money made available for the Turkish army - which is the second largest in NATO. They even have legislation in place guaranteeing the funding of the army. They are not Greeks who could not afford jet fuel during the crisis to buzz Turkish jets illegally entering Greek airspace..

Turkish expansion only stops one of two ways. One - they elect a leader that believes in managed decline like Dora Bakoyiannnis. The second way? War. A clever country will wage a proxy war on Turkey to weaken her. Libya was gift in this respect. Greeks however will play the waiting game - like they did with Constantinople..

[JVC]

They will.



That is not how they operate. Firstly they start taking oil/gas deposits from greek seas. Then further humiliations. Taking actual Greek land is further down the tracks.

It is like the Nazis. They didn't just round up all the jews and deport them. It was a process. First identifying jews in any town/city. Marching them in public early in the morning. Humiliating them. Then dumping them in ghettos. Then finally deporting those left to camps. The Turks plan is going very well - with full help from idiots like Dora.




Western countries think like that. Not Turkic. They are willing to make citizens poorer to expand. They have not changed in 1000 years. They even sacrifice their own troops to get sympathetic headlines like in Idlib where they put their own soldiers in the way of Russian missiles knowing they would die.




They don't care. Simple as that. They are not Western and there will always be money made available for the Turkish army - which is the second largest in NATO. They even have legislation in place guaranteeing the funding of the army. They are not Greeks who could not afford jet fuel during the crisis to buzz Turkish jets illegally entering Greek airspace..

Turkish expansion only stops one way. War. A clever country will wage a proxy war on Turkey to weaken her. Libya was gift in this respect. Greeks however will play the waiting game - like they did with Constantinople..

Well lets dive deeper into this topic....what would your next steps be? You mentioned oil and gas, however I can't see profit in that business ATM....all explorations by ExxonMobil have been delayed. It would probably cost more to wage war, start explorations by Turkey and eventually get to production. The oil markets right now are killing Turkey since you mentioned Oil. So what course of action should Greece take?

[Reaper]

You mentioned oil and gas, however I can't see profit in that business ATM....all explorations by ExxonMobil have been delayed.

Again, you are thinking like a Westerner. I don't want to deprogram you or anything but try to attempt to think more like an expansionist plains Sunni rather than Western capitalist. The oil and gas money Turkey will make by drilling in Greeks seas is not the reason they will be drilling there. It is about precedent. Only a country that owns a sea can drill it. The drilling will be symbolic and set precedent for the soon to be extinct Greek shelf. It is the same reason they are drilling off the coast of Cyprus. It proves to Turkey and the international community that Greece has no rights in the region and is not a sovereign nation. Why do you think Turkey flies its airforce over Lesbos and Xios at the cost of $10,000s per sortie? It is about displaying dominance and showing the world the Greek borders are not sovereign. This is a long game but Turkey is willing to play it to rebuild their empire.

So what course of action should Greece take?

A few actions.

Greece needs to claim a full 12 miles air and sea EEZ as is its right by international law. It should then make an offer to either the EU, USA or Russia to co-defend these borders from Turks. As long as Greece keeps its borders ambiguous and its weak policy of 'buzzing' Turkish jets that fly directly over Greek landmass. Russia will flight guarantee to protect this border to undermine the EU. Greece should then adopt a policy that every other nation on earth has. Turkey violates its sovereign borders - the jet gets fired upon. No homoerotic 'buzzing' that only encourages more violations on Greek citizens' heads..

Greece should veto Turkish EU memebership until Turkey removes the causi belli it has on Greeks controlling its own borders..

Greece should have sent troops to Syria to guard Christian villages. The Christians in these villages used to call themselves Greeks before the 1800s. Then 'Assyrians' as the Turks began massacring them and force converting them to Islam. Now they call themselves Christian Arab Syrians. No Greek has to die under this policy and Russia would have been pleased. The EU would realise Greece is a player and not quickly reducing state like Georgia/Armenia/Romania.

Greece should have boots on the ground in Libya - advising Haftar how to retake the country. This like with Syria - would cost Greece nothing financially and would tell Italy/EU/Turkey that Greece has interests below Crete.

No soldiers have to see combat in either arena - simply police Syrian Christian towns and monasteries and advise Haftar in Libya and help train his troops. Both deployments would also give Greek soldiers much needed experience and teach them the world is bigger than 6 miles off the Greek coast..

You keep hiding from shit in the world, and eventually the world comes to your front door. Greece by remaining neutral after each loss of territory is encouraging the loss of more territory.

[Filikieteria1821]

Erdogan is witty as he sends aid to countries like Italy and the US because he’s trying to show that turkey hasn’t destroyed the bridge with the west. But Turks are dying in turkey due to the corona, people’s salaries are cut and the inflation and economic collapse that is coming (Turkish lira hit another low today versus the usd) and erdogan could care less. I agree that to a certain degree erdogan needs a better economy to sustain his expansionist plans but I do not think a horrible economy will prevent erdogan from continuing his quest to remakethe Ottoman Empire.

we have to remember that erdogan has made his plans very clear for the entire world to hear and see. His use of maps and revisionist theories show that Greece is not being aggressive or proactive enough.

until Greece starts operating like a country that values the very notion of statehood, there’s really nothing we can do. Buzzing Turkish jets isn’t going to scare them. Participating in eu surveillance missions to prevent the arms embargo isn’t gonna help either.

Greece needs to be more forceful and that can be accomplished in a few ways:

-place an economic embargo on Turkish goods
- block Albanian accession to EU so long as they have the close relations with turkey as they do
- veto any and all pro Turkish legislation in the EU
-Permanentley close the evros border and invest more heavily in having a permanent watch force along the islands
-Extend to 12
-send troops to Libya in order to aid haftar
- begin to speak about the genocides and atrocities committed against Greeks on the international stage
- block Turkish tv shows from airing on Greek channels
- invest in arms industry and tech
- bring industry in Greece and make taxes competitive so that countries would rather invest in manufacturing in Greece versus turkey

these are just a few things that would signal to the world that Greece is serious about its sovereignty and national integrity