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Russians repeat the US line.
Greeks islands have an EEZ continental shelf:
https://www.tovima.gr/2020/06/14/pol...ipida-kai-aoz/
Greeks islands have an EEZ continental shelf:
https://www.tovima.gr/2020/06/14/pol...ipida-kai-aoz/
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There was a member on this forum who was convinced that war with Turkey was not possible. I guess watching those Turkish soaps convinced him of that. The thought they could do to something in this day and age to Greece akin to what Russia did to Ukraine, or as the Turks are now doing in Syria, obviously escapes him. He's not alone. Many others fail to appreciate that Turkish ambitions have placed our country firmly in the cross-hairs of a possible war.
Well, it's now being reported that Turkey had plans to invade Greece and Armenia probably as a contingency depending on how things went in Syria:
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/tu...-report-631641
Titled “TSK Çakabey Harekât Planlama Direktifi” (TSK [Turkish Armed Forces] Çakabey Operation Planning Directive), the presentation was dated June 13, 2014. According to the Nordic Monitor report, this suggests the plan was likely updated and finalized after a review of some earlier draft, and that the plan could still be active.The operation was named after the first Ottoman ruler to conquer Greek islands in the Aegean.It is believed that the plans were prepared as a contingency regarding developments in Syria, wanting to maintain offensive and deterrence capabilities on the western front while moving troops, the Nordic Monitor reported.Comment
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No surprise and quite honestly, I would be more surprised if they didn't have designs on invading Greece. People got comfortable with the notion that Greece and Turkey are in NATO so nothing can happen, but with how Turkey has behaved for quite some time, their history, etc, it would be downright foolish to think NATO would somehow stop Turkey from invading.
Turkey is past the point of redemption, but as long as the US takes soft stances on them while the EU sends strongly worded letters, Turkey will continue to feel they can do as they want. Turkey knows that they mean too much to the EU, in the form of debt, trade, and the US (strategic location, nukes, large army) that they can really push the envelope.
It's only going to really matter if shit hits the fan in September when Turkey is set to send drill ships south of Crete and Greece is forced to cut the wires, or downright sink the thing.Comment
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i personally still believe the turks don't want war..poking and probing here, skirmishes there..i'm sure they are confident of their chances.
just because turkey has plans doesn't mean anything. the usa had it's command script war plan red, in case of war with the united kingdom and canada.
i'm sure the greece command has similar plans today with a turkey, albania, fyrom....at least, you'd think. if so, albanians can get all hysterical if that was made public. it's the job of the military to prepare for all scenarios, whether greece or turkey or bolivia.
doesn't change my opinion.Comment
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I am not sure Greeks have a similar plan concerning Turkey.
Lets not forget this is a country that could not work out how to storm the ERT offices in 2013..
Bizarrely the only true organisation and planning I ever see in Greece is among protesting unionists and anarchists.Comment
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The US has plans to prepare for a zombie apocalypse, but what Turkey has planned here shows their true intents and ambitions.
These Turkish plans are short on details, but the fact they named it after Caka Bey suggests it was a plan to invade the islands and to take over the Aegean. I think it's interesting that Turkey had been in the stages of finalizing this plan in 2014, six years before they decided to get militarily involved in Syria. In contrast, those Armenian plans were finalized back in the early 2000s.
This plan was likely dependent on circumstances in Syria. Why at that time did they think it necessary to maintain military preparedness for offensive capabilities against Greece? Under what pretext could they have foreseen a war with us? Were they paranoid that the West would turn on them too? That the West would do to Erdogan what was being done to Ghaddafi and Assad? Did they think they could flood us with migrants and they could play savior if we took military action to deny them entry and left them to drown? Picture this: a migrant ship sinks, migrants drown, and the Turks take over uninhabited islands while playing savior to the migrants.
And since they got involved in Syria, we've seen Turkey weaponize the migrants and use them as human shields both in the Aegean and our land border. They knew their involvement in the war would give them an excuse to precipitate another migrant crisis. Should we think it a coincidence the migrant problem became a big crisis in 2015, a year after they would have finalized these plans? Or was that part of this plan?
It's evident the migrant crisis was promoted in large part by the UN and other NGOs who encouraged these migrants to seek refuge in Europe. Also the US and others used the crisis to build up sympathy for war efforts against Assad. Did the Turks feel they had enough cover from these groups to use the migrant crisis for their own purposes too? Namely, to take the uninhabited islands (because since Turks do have these ambitions, that would be the best place for them to start and potentially get away with it).Comment
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How long before there is a second generation of Sunni illegal immigrants born and raised in Lesbos are asking Erdogan to help open them their own mosque there?Comment
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Israel will never trust another Middle East country again....the same logic should be used with Greeks for Turkey.Originally posted by aek66 View PostComment
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NATO response to Turkey carving up Syria and Libya today:
Stoltenberg: We are concerned about the Russian presence in the Eastern Mediterranean region, especially in Syria and Libya
Now Turkey controls Libya and is creating F-16 bases there as well as a military harbour - the new grey zones will begin popping up South of the Peloponnese with violations down there daily. Greece is getting surrounded in an Ottoman pincer movement.
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Daily Mail brave enough to cover it:
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They're increasing their activities in Albania too. So long as we reach agreements with Egypt and Israel similar to the one with Italy, develop military preparedness, and confront the Turks when they challenge us in our seas and in the air, then we'll have made all the right moves. They are trying to bait us into some kind of action that would provide them with fig leaf cover for them to act militarily, probably with the aim of gaining hold of uninhabited islands. They're probing and testing to see what they can get away with and maybe draw us into a hot incident.
I do think we need limited involvement in Libya too, bear minimum we have to be prepared enough to act, but really we need to get involved if we're going to have a seat at the table. Otherwise, we'll be left out like we were in Berlin.
As for NATO, they are a travesty. The whole of point NATO is to defend against the big, bad Soviets. The problem is the Russians aren't the Soviets anymore and NATO's mission now leaves Russia understandably paranoid. NATO should have been disbanded when the Soviet Union disbanded. And Europe should have created a peace keeping body that retained NATO's capabilities and left the door properly open for Russia to join.
I also think it's telling that Putin goes to church every Sunday. How many Western leaders can say the same? Most seem to treat Christianity as a form of bigoted beliefs. Then there's the Islamist Erdogan who intends to turn what was once the biggest church in the world into a mosque. And that's what Islamists believe, converting the world to their Islamic ways. That's the goal of groups like Muslim Brotherhood.Comment
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Trump apparently wanted to intervene in the halkbank case, which allowed Iran to evade US sanctions.....Sorry but having someone so in love with Erdogan is not exactly confidence inspiring for Greeks and Greece in general.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...ey-probe-after
Although the dems are batshit insane, I will not be extending my vote to trump for 2020. I think I'm going to sit this one out.
I cannot vote for someone who is undoubtedly supporting Greece's eternal enemy, especially so heavily and without any shame.Comment
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Filikieteria1821
There's no question Trump has given Erdogan too much of a free hand and that their relationship is too close for comfort, but I don't know about these latest revelations. It's very short on details concerning what Trump actually did to interfere in the investigation. In the end, the investigation wasn't dropped and the accused were indicted. Also Trump didn't extradite Gulen, which was a top priority for Erdogan. This is more of the same garbage we've been hearing about his presidency. As far as I can tell, the only person selling the country out are people like Bolton.
Bolton is scum and I wouldn't believe anything he said unless it can be verified by recordings. Did you read the part about what made John Bolton turn on Trump? It was when Trump cancelled the missile attack order that would have killed 150 Iranians. Trump originally authorized the order in response to Iranians having shot down a drone! Bolton went home thinking they would get hit only to find out later Trump reversed the order. Bolton is pure scum. A sick and twisted loser who thinks world war is a good thing.Comment
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No doubt John Bolton is not to be fully trusted as he is known to be a neocon but I just am not happy with how Trump has handled turkey in his 4 years.
Trump was desperate to pass on responsibility for Syria so he figured well Erdogan is there and is willing so let's let him run roughshod on the Kurds and annex Syrian territory.
Now much of the same is occurring in Libya where the US is more concerned about posting pictures of Russian fighter jets being given to the LNA, versus speaking on how Turkey has ratcheted up the stakes in Libya.
It always seems that the US never holds Turkey to the same standard and obviously it's because russia is the bad guy, and turkey is the NATO ally.
But I think we will all come to see soon enough because Turkey will undoubtedly look to send drill ships to Greek territory in September and I don't think Greece will allow it, but Turkey will not be persuaded not to.
This will likely put America in a bind where they will have to act as mediator
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Turkey is whining that Egypt has made a declaration of war. In fact, Egypt drew a line in the sand and told Turkey there are limits to how far they can go. Good.Comment
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Erdogan calling Trump twice a day most weeks to secure the Turkish annexation of Syria/Libya:
https://www.ekathimerini.com/254215/...mp-cnn-reports
The left and indeed Greek media will look to damage Trump with this news. However the real lesson is that Mitsotakis, Macron, Sisi etc should have been doing the same. Turkey wants land - it works for it.
Has Mitsotakis offered the US Thrace to put its nukes? Doubt it. So dont complain..Comment
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