Turkey

[Brklyngrk]

I also read that Erdogan wanted to sink a Greek ship or shoot down a plane a few days ago (he did say to limit loss of lives). His generals vetoed him and talked him out of it. He wanted to create a "hot incident" which would force us to attack them. He is also probably embarrassed by what happened to that Frigate a few weeks ago.

[Don Giovanni]

The German newspaper Die Welt claimed in a report on Tuesday that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan wanted to provoke a military incident with Greece in the Eastern Mediterranean in order to survive politically.

The report, entitled “Erdogan’s calculated war,” said that “if it depended on the Turkish President, his navy would have sunk a Greek ship in the Mediterranean a long time ago.”

More specifically, the paper said, citing Turkish military sources, Erdogan had asked Turkey generals a few days ago to sink a Greek ship and that they should do so securing that no one is killed in the process.

When the generals refused, someone else suggested shooting down a Greek fighter, and the pilot could use the launch pad to save himself. But Turkish generals again refused.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/256456/...k-a-greek-ship

[Don Giovanni]

[tantra]

I also read that Erdogan wanted to sink a Greek ship or shoot down a plane a few days ago (he did say to limit loss of lives). His generals vetoed him and talked him out of it. He wanted to create a "hot incident" which would force us to attack them. He is also probably embarrassed by what happened to that Frigate a few weeks ago.

do you think the generals have that power?
to refuse his orders?

the way he’s been governing indicates otherwise.

He’s also been barking louder and louder.

[Don Giovanni]

I think he was sounding out options, not handing down orders. If he had ordered it, they would have done as he commanded.

It's important to note that Erdogan did not order the shoot down of the Russian jet. Erdogan had to claim responsibility. If Erdogan denied he ordered it and exposed what happened, it would have forced the plotters against him to carry out the coup there and then because they would have been exposed and forced to act. Even with Erdogan claiming responsibility he took a risk because that could have led to a coup anyways because the plotters would use that to encourage others to believe Erdogan had gone mad by attacking the Russians like that.

When the coup finally did happen months later it was because these same culprits panicked. They felt compelled to react before Erdogan purged more of their numbers, which slowly but surely he was doing.

The only thing that saved Erdogan from a Russian response was Turkey's membership with NATO, but also he got on the phone and explained to Putin the truth. This is why Turkey has been moving closer and closer to Russia ever since.

[Don Giovanni]

I will hand it to Macron, the man knows how to lead.

he was also unafraid to highlight the obvious – that Turkey is an imperialist regional power that aims to exploit foreign countries, as seen with its invasion and occupation of areas of Cyprus, Syria, Libya and Iraq.

I'd go a step further and label Erdogan an Islamist on par with the Iranians.

Macron added. “Germany and other partners are beginning to agree with us that Turkey’s agenda is problematic now. While six months ago some people said that only France blames Turkey for various things, now everyone sees that there is a problem.”

[AGP]

It's maybe a separate topic, but the future of the EU being successful depends on Macron leading and shaping it.

[tantra]

You also have to secure he stays in power.

[AGP]

Not to go too far off topic, but the French electoral system really favours Macron securing the presidency.

The double run off effectively always puts him in the top 2, and Le Pen is never getting 50% of the vote. The rest of the country that don't vote Le Pen will get behind Macron.

I also think confronting Turkey has an element of domestic political consumption. It probably shifts the more moderate Le Pen voters towards Macron.

[Reaper]

Macron has worked hard over this. The 12 eez of the cyclades should be made in coordination with him if Greece is too afraid to do it alone. Needs to be done fast.

[Don Giovanni]

The US ended it's 30-plus year arm sales embargo against Cyprus after Pompeo's call with President Anastasiadis. It's for non-lethal military equipment and it will only last a year.

[Don Giovanni]

Turkey not happy: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...embargo-cyprus

[Don Giovanni]

Apparently, the pursuit of the Greek elites is not resistance. It is a dialogue aimed at “compromise” through the “reasonable” concession of national sovereign rights. The prospect of a Greece, which will aim at a strategic victory over Turkey and to emerge as a strong power in the Eastern Mediterranean and an important factor in Europe is something that seems to surpass them.

I sincerely hope our "betters" know that pragmatism will dictate relations between Turkey and our "allies." If we don't fully stand up to the Turks now, we will pay heavier costs later. We can't afford them an inch. We have to contain Turkey and that message must resonate with our partners.

[Don Giovanni]

No surprise here...

[Don Giovanni]

This happened Monday.

[Reaper]

Austria again backing Greece vs Turkey:

[Don Giovanni]

He's been one of the first and most consistent voices in our favor.

[Don Giovanni]

Igor Korotchenko, head of the Centre for Analysis of World Arms Trade in Moscow, said the exercises were a show of force by Russia against NATO and not an effort to back Turkey.

The drills are being interpreted as an attempt of Russia to remind NATO, locked as it is in a dispute between its two members Greece and Turkey, of its significant naval presence and influence in the eastern Mediterranean.

[Don Giovanni]

It's being said and I can only hope it's being heard...