Libya

[Reaper]

Bear in mind the US harbors Gullen and unofficially supported the Turkish coup against Erdogan. The Pentagon does want Erdogan out of the picture. The problem is Trump and Erdogan see each other as peas in the same pod because of the whole Deep State thing.

It's up to Mitsotakis to raise noise, that Erdogan's ambition is to everyone else's disadvantage. It's worth a try. If we can't get Italy on board, so be it. We have to still get out in front of this.

The worst thing is Greece doesn't even have a position on Libya. Greek diplomats have not even met with Italian diplomats to discuss Libya.

[Don Giovanni]

US has denounced Russia for sending arms and support to Haftar in Libya:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-li...-idUKKBN22J31B

The United States does not support the offensive of Libya’s eastern-based military leader Khalifa Haftar against Tripoli and believes Russia is working with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to transfer militia fighters and equipment to Libya, senior U.S. officials said on Thursday.

They didn't condemn the Turks, however. That goes to show where the US stands in this row. Even with Biden or another Democrat in power, they will probably oppose Haftar too I believe. This isn't just a matter of Trump's friendliness with Erdogan anymore. This is Pentagon policy as they view Russia as their bigger threat and rival relative to the Turks. This means the Pentagon is now happy to live with Erdogan in power, at least for now.

This is bad news. The result will play right into Turkey's hands. And whose to say the Americans won't treat us as they did the Kurds when push comes to shove with Turkish claims? We are on our own here. Mitsotakis has to speak up and put Erdogan in the same flotilla as the Iranian clerics. Hopefully Assad can get back into the good graces of more Arab allies and we can turn the West's attention to Erdogan instead.

[Reaper]

It also seems to prove the US nukes are still in incirlik.

[Reaper]

Turkey accused five other countries—including two of its fellow NATO allies—of forming an "alliance of evil" after they issued joint declaration on Libya and the Mediterranean

[Don Giovanni]

The EU and NATO stick another knife in the back:

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/05/1...aritime-space/

NATO head Jens Stoltenberg said on Thursday in an interview with Italian daily La Repubblica.

“In Libya there is an arms embargo that needs to be respected by all sides,” Stoltenberg said. “However, this doesn’t mean to put on the same level the forces led by Haftar and the government of Fayez al-Sarraj, the only one recognised by the UN.”

“For this reason, NATO is ready to give its support to the government of Tripoli,” he said.

We left the Italians to run Operation Irini and they betrayed us. We should have taken control of that operation. Massive failure!

It's up to Mitsotakis to call out Erdogan and his support for jihadists. Turkey doesn't have a problem calling us evil and I can't think of anything more evil than supporting the very groups responsible for killing 4 Americans in the Benghazi attack and the jihadists in Syria. Obama covered it up, remember. He didn't want the truth revealed about the people the US supported in Libya and Syria. That they were in support of al-Qaeda.

Mitsotakis needs to speak up.

[Reaper]

Did Greece have constant high level meetings with Italian diplomats explaining what Greece wants or did Greece as I suspect do nothing and just hope for the best? Turkey has managed to split Greece and Turkey geopolitically through constant diplomatic pressure and what has Greece done to counter this? Nothing. No plan..

[Reaper]

Massive Ottoman gains is Western Libya today. Haftar begged Greece and Turkey for any help they could give - a commander, some weapons, some uniforms - anything more than some kind words.. Haftar got nothing - the GNA got Turkey.. Erdogan played this one well. Greeks.. they played their usual 1453 tactics..

So far Erdogan has imported around 9000 Syrian jihadists into Libya:

https://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=165165

Italy and the rest of the EU are fine with it. Only Greece and France were brave enough to state there were not happy.. Honestly though, the EU will be happy for Turks to control Libya. The EU will take a Turk over a Russia any day.

[Reaper]

Italian Ambassador to Libya, Giuseppe Puccini, congratulated the GNA Presidential Council for the liberation of Al-Watiyah Airbase from Haftar's forces.

[Reaper]

Mitso talks with Conte. Italian support for Turkey in Libya not mentioned:

https://www.tovima.gr/2020/05/20/pol...ladas-italias/

[Don Giovanni]

Something strange is happening in Turkey. The man dubbed the architect of this scheme to steal Greece's easternmost islands and maritime space had resigned this past Monday after having been demoted by Erdogan. It could signify that Turkey is moving back into the orbit of the US and out of the Russian orbit. And this act in itself could suggest a fundamental change in tack, that Turkey will move away from their current aggressive posturing in the Mediterranean.

Moreover, Turkey is faced with very serious economic problems and could declare bankruptcy by the end of the summer, but Qatar so far looks willing to underwrite their tab.

It's unclear to me what happens next.

Either France and Greece go along with the UN, US, EU and NATO direction on Libya, trusting the process (which I think would be a big mistake, the EU will plunge the knife further into our backs), or we continue working in a de facto alliance with Haftar and his backers (Egypt, Russia, UAE). We are at a crossroads.

I think we need to seriously consider sending troops in at this stage. Putting men on the ground could deter Turkey from future attacks on Haftar held territory while keeping the Turks bogged down in Libya and at an impasse. There is a risk things could ignite into a full-blown war, but we should invite the Turks into making that mistake while giving our prayers and thanks to those brave enough to face the challenge.

And let's be clear, an unwillingness to face this challenge today will mean that a later time we will be confronted by an even greater challenge against a stronger Turkey while trying to fend for ourselves from an even weaker position.

The simple fact is we have to contain Turkey and remind our so-called allies that this is ultimately in their own interests too. Just like they're now realizing with China suddenly awakening and calling all the shots, like slapping an outrageous tariff on Australia for daring to suggest the virus leaked out of a lab. It doesn't work that way and the Turks need to get that message too.

[Reaper]

Greeks realising they have been outsmarted and out manoeuvred again concerning Libya. Greece's diplomatic response has beed non existent.

https://www.tovima.gr/2020/05/21/pol...eis-sti-livyi/

[Filikieteria1821]

The problem with Greece is they lack the balls to go ahead and get involved.

I think there are two reasons for this and the reasons are psychological and economic:

Turkey will continue to throw a ton of capital at Libya even when they go bankrupt because if it means swathes of turks are eating crumbs off the streets, but turkey gets to live out its "mavi vatan" or recreating the ottoman empire, then you best believe Sultan Erdogan will follow through.

Secondly, Greece has been rendered useless because it's economy is too dependent on tourism, and is still scared that the EU will pull the financial plug on them if they get involved in a conflict which looks like it will last awhile in Libya. Greece's foreign policy is not a foreign policy that is independent, as it is continuously puts blind faith in "allies" that have done little to garner such unwavering support. But Greece does not want to test the international stage due to how fragile the Greek state truly is.

On a side note, the losses in Cyprus and Asia Minor have scarred the greek mindset and any thought of competing against the turks for influence in the greater region, at least if it comes down to getting involved in armed conflict, is a non-starter.

When you operate in a scared manner, always wondering what if things go bad, then you ultimately let your opponent make you look like a fool and steal from you.

Greece will now allow Turkey to gain a huge foothold in Libya, turkey will then be granted license by Sarraj to drill off the coast of Libya and Turkey will then move to do the same off the coast of Crete, Kasos, Karpathos and soon enough you will also see kastelorizo fall. Will Greece seriously entertain sending naval assets to crete to patrol?

I hate to say it but all signs point to Greece having to get military involved at some point. Whether it's in Libya (would need to be a miracle) or off the coast of crete/dodecanesa. Turkey has successfully cornered Greece into a corner where Greece has to sit at the table and lose territory, or actually fight, and perhaps still lose territory.

[Don Giovanni]

I think unless we send in troops into Libya, we will not have a seat at the table. It doesn't mean launching offensives, but having men on the ground sends a message that we are prepared to go to war. I think it will deter the Turks too. If we fail to face this challenge now, we will face even harder challenges in the future.

It's also up to Mitsotakis to make it clear that Erdogan himself is an Islamist and a threat to the wider region. He has to make noise.

[Filikieteria1821]

Apparently Haftar's forces were able to shoot down at least one more turkish drone and Haftar has stated that the LNA will be launching a massive air assault on any turkish positions.

I think some of this is obviously posturing because ultimately turkey has been sending flights regularly to reinforce the GNA with troops/anti air systems, etc.

Greece doesn't even have to get super involved in Libya to show at least some backbone. Most of us have been advocating for anti air support systems, some weapons/supplies, and perhaps ask Haftar if he wants some greek military personnel to help train LNA forces. But unfortunately, Greece continues to operate with a scared mindset fearing that if they help the LNA they will get stuck in a conflict that will go on for a long long time, and that turkey will up the ante.

[Reaper]

LNA total collapse on their Tripoli front.