FYROM

[Filikieteria1821]

The prespes agreement is one of, if not the most anti-hellenic piece of legislation ever drafted by a Greek politician. Not only does it capitulate to the falsity of there being a slavomacedonian identity, it also gives them the language, which is more damning. A geographic/ethnic qualifier was done in the 90's and that was the first step in the demise. Tsipras being the commie he is figured he would follow it up by giving the slav's whatever they want.

I hope it fails in Greek parliament, but I'm not convinced it will. The greek political elite are spineless. Syriza still has firm control of parliament majority, so a lot needs to happen before that changes. We need a major scandal in Greece that forces Tsipras to get out.

[Reaper]

The prespes agreement is one of, if not the most anti-hellenic piece of legislation ever drafted by a Greek politician. Not only does it capitulate to the falsity of there being a slavomacedonian identity, it also gives them the language, which is more damning. A geographic/ethnic qualifier was done in the 90's and that was the first step in the demise. Tsipras being the commie he is figured he would follow it up by giving the slav's whatever they want.

I hope it fails in Greek parliament, but I'm not convinced it will. The greek political elite are spineless. Syriza still has firm control of parliament majority, so a lot needs to happen before that changes. We need a major scandal in Greece that forces Tsipras to get out.

I wish Greek politicians were spineless. Then they would all vote against the commie agreement Tsipras created because they would fear getting beaten in the streets as the vast majority of greeks are anti the agreement. However most Greek politicians are insidiously anti greek and were raised under pasok anti-greek governments.

[RED SHERIFF]

I don't believe it will get through parliament...I reckon it is dead..

[Filikieteria1821]

http://www.ekathimerini.com/236177/a...y-prespes-deal

The contentious name deal between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) is expected to be ratified in FYROM’s Parliament earlier than expected, possibly by January 10, meaning that the so-called Prespes agreement will come to Greece’s House early too, likely triggering political developments.

It appears that FYROM Prime Minister Zoran Zaev is speeding up the process of passing the deal in Skopje after NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg reportedly sent a letter to both Skopje and Athens, calling for the deal to be approved in both parliaments by February 15 so that the Balkan nation can join the alliance without further delay.

In comments on New Year’s Eve, Greek premier Alexis Tsipras would not be drawn on when the deal will come before Greek MPs, though government spokesman Dimitris Tzanakopoulos indicated that the decision will be made after January 18.

As Kathimerini revealed in its Sunday edition, NATO allies have agreed that a vote to ratify the Prespes deal in Greek Parliament will be separate from a vote on a protocol that will lift Greece’s objections to FYROM’s bid to join NATO.

In any case, the deal’s approval is expected to spark political developments, with speculation about the timing of possible snap elections peaking.

Tsipras insisted in comments to reporters over the holidays that elections will take place as scheduled in October. However, there is debate about possible snap polls in May when local authority and European elections are scheduled, or even March.

As regards the vote on the Prespes deal, Tsipras told reporters on New Year’s Eve that he had “not yet decided whether it will happen before March.”

Former foreign minister Nikos Kotzias, who signed the Prespes deal in June before quitting the cabinet in October following a clash with Tsipras’s coalition partner, Panos Kammenos, who objects to the agreement, expressed his conviction that the deal will be ratified.

“There is no doubt,” he told FYROM’s MIA news agency. “That majority has been achieved.”

As we can see here again, people are trying to rush the agreements through parliament to cement the betrayal. Tsipras knows he will no longer be the PM in a few months, and his buddies know they will have no spot in Greek political life (or at least I can hope Greeks in Greece are not stupid enough to allow it).

To me it seems that all of this rests on the shoulders of Panos Kammenos, which is a scary proposition. He has waffled his way, playing tough guy with absolutely no action. All of the negatives will go away if he and the rest of ANEL were to vote No as the majority needed would not be reached.

This is a pivotal moment in Greek history because if you allow a foreign country that has no relation to Ancient Greek history, steal ancient greek history, then you mite as well fold everything up and dissolve as a nation.

[Filikieteria1821]

News coming out of Greece is Kammenos has met with Tsipras and has dropped himself and ANEL out of government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Rd4_8Iusw

The debate will start tuesday and the no confidence vote will be held wednesday night

I still cannot believe the deal is done until it's officially killed. One thing is for sure, if kammenos and ANEL are done, then SYRIZA doesn't have the necessary seats to secure a majority and there will have to be some traitors getting blackmailed or bought off for this agreement to go through.

[Filikieteria1821]

As I suspected, Kammenos leaving is all political theater

http://www.ekathimerini.com/236552/a...t-to-be-passed

After the hype of the last few days, that brought into question the prospects of the present government continuing in power, as well as the ratification of the Prespes agreement by Athens, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and his coalition partner Panos Kammenos, have in essence agreed to a mutually convenient path which will not threaten either.

Recapping what was announced today, but has been essentially a prearranged deal, the SYRIZA government will remain in power, with a renewed mandate, despite the criticism of the way this new majority is being created.

SYRIZA itself has 145 deputies, and can count on the positive votes of Citizens Security deputy Minister, Katerina Papacosta, To Potami deputy Spyros Danellis, as well as four Independent Greeks deputies, Tourism Minister Elena Kountoura, Agriculture Deputy Minister Vassilis Kokkalis, and deputies Thanassis Papachristopoulos and Costas Zouraris. They add up to the 151 needed for a simple majority in the 300-member Parliament.

Only Panos Kammenos who is Defense Minister and his Deputy Minister MariaKollia-Tsaroucha, will resign their government posts.

Hence, the math is there for the government to pass the confidence vote, which will take place next Wednesday or Thursday, and continue in power, with a renewed mandate, despite the criticism of the way this new parliamentary majority is being created.

At the same time, the agreement between the Greek PM and his outgoing coalition partner, indirectly but clearly makes almost certain the passage by the Greek Parliament of the Prespes Agreement.

Zoran Zaev, the Prime Minister of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), called on Greek lawmakers to ratify the Prespes accord during a press conference on Saturday, a day after his country's Parliament approved the constitutional amendments required under the deal with Greece. It seems his call will be answered.

Tsipras has decided to take the Prespes process to the end, in an effort to show to the EU and the US that he has evolved into a realistic and credible partner.

SYRIZA has 145 votes, and if one adds to those the positive votes of Ministers Papacosta and Kountoura, as well as those of To Potami deputies Theodorakis, Danellis, Lykoudis and Mavrotas, and Independent Greeks deputy Papachristopoulos, we end up again with a majority of 152. And here again, there might be one more, possibly Democratic Left chief Thanasis Theocharopoulos. In anycase the government will stay on, to the relief of Greece's transatlantic partners and allies who have invested a lot in the passage of the Prespes Agremment.

A final footnote. The whole set up allows Mr. Kammenos, although not a Minister anymore - he will be replaced by Admiral Apostolakis - to remain leader of a parliamentary group since at least five deputies are required for one to exist and be able to enjoy certain institutional benefits. This way, Mr. Kammenos safeguards the higher exposure he needs to fight for the political survival of his party and his goal of entering Parliament again in the next national elections whenever they may take place.

[Reaper]

So once again, the Greek right turn out to be greek hating communists.. quelle surprise.

[Reaper]

Kammenos is ultimately the one who gave away the name.

[Filikieteria1821]

A lot of rumors going around that secretly Greece's politicians are hoping the agreement goes through, so if they reach power, they will not have that kinda hot stove issue to deal with.

That kind of attitude is exactly why Greece finds itself in the position that it does.

[Filikieteria1821]

Traitor tsipra has passed the confidence vote with 151 out of 300... the greek political establishment is filled with disgusting people.

Vote for prespes agreement is meant to happen sometime next week...i hope something catastrophic happens and forces a halt

[Reaper]

Traitor tsipra has passed the confidence vote with 151 out of 300... the greek political establishment is filled with disgusting people.

Vote for prespes agreement is meant to happen sometime next week...i hope something catastrophic happens and forces a halt

Every '''Greek''' who votes for this agreement needs their names carved in marble on a monument so future generations know their names.

The 5 '''right wing''' Independent Greeks who voted for Trotskyist Tsipras and thus in effect saved Tsipras, further prove that Greece is so far to the left, that what the brain dead Greek media consider right wing - is in fact centre left.

This is why Neo Nazis poll so high in Greece. There is no genuine conservative party in Greece, just varying types of communists, soft left wafflers and liberals.

[Filikieteria1821]

The only right wing element in Greece is Golden Dawn and they are far too nuts to seriously consider. But Greece so badly needs a nationalist party that cares about Greece, its history, it's territorial borders, etc.

They need a Orban or Salvini/Conte type person, who is all about the country.

[Reaper]

Transparent and insidious pro FYROM article by oneman.gr:


https://www.oneman.gr/keimena/diabas...&utm_term=Pos7

[Filikieteria1821]

http://www.ekathimerini.com/236836/o...rical-identity

It goes without saying that an issue as important as the name dispute between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) needs to be handled with great care, with the aim of maximizing the benefits of a resolution or at least of minimizing the damage – obviously within the best possible bounds.

Realism, as the only guarantee of viable solutions, also dictates the need for compromise. The scope, however, of any compromise can only be seen clearly once we understand what is at stake – in other words, what there is to lose. And on this particular issue, the toll is more than heavy: The so-called Prespes agreement and everything it entails is an affront to, or more precisely an assault on, Greece’s historical identity.

The past, the historical journey, is a fundamental element in the identity not just of a people, but of every person. On an individual level, the story of each person defines their uniqueness and personality and is therefore the cornerstone of their dignity.

Man, Karl Jaspers said, is a historical being that cannot be understood without his past. “No reality is more essential to our self-awareness than history... it shows us standards by which to measure the present,” the German-Swiss philosopher said. In a similar vein, French existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre argued that we are our past and our future selves, but without our past, we are not what we are. The past, therefore, is an intrinsic part of our identity. This is also why historicity is protected by law as an element of a nation’s and an individual’s identity.

Indeed, both international law and national legislation protect nations’ historic identities. One typical example is the fact that denial of the Holocaust and other genocides is a crime in most countries. So if someone denies that the extermination of the Jewish people took place, they will be – rightly – considered as having committed a crime. The reason why Holocaust denial is a crime is because it harms something much deeper: the collective, legally protected right of the historic identity of the Jewish nation. Denial of historical facts that casts doubt upon the historical identity of a nation is considered a particularly odious act.

It is, therefore, impossible to understand the concept of a people without their past, just as it is impossible to deprive an individual of his past, as the damage that is incurred with such identity theft is similar to moral and social death.

If we imagine for a moment that Greece is suddenly inhabited by another people who have no connection to the history of the Greeks, this new nation could not regard itself as Greek. A people is its history.

A nation’s history is instrumental to its self-awareness but also to how it defines its place in the community of nations. Erasing its history or slighting its historical memory can have devastating consequences on its existence and continuity. And when global public opinion is being shaped by and large in the uncontrollable space of the internet, where controlling the dissemination of erroneous information is almost if not entirely impossible, rather than at universities and schools, then historical identity becomes even more vulnerable. Not by chance, the saying is that there are two ways to most effectively bring about the disappearance of a people: erasing its language and giving away its history.

We should not be giving away our name with a mere signature.


Why the prespes agreement is so damaging

[Reaper]

A few points. The Greek communists lead by Tsipras are fully aware the Greek people who pay their wages would never agree to this deal. That is why they will never give a referendum on the matter. All they will do is sign the deal and call the 70% of the Greek people who are against the deal - 'fanatics and fascists.'

This is why I am always against communists. Capitalists can sell physical assets they shouldn't - communists - they can give away your whole identity and call you a fascist if you show dissent. I stated that the minute Syriza came to power - they would do damage to Greece that could never be undone. So it has come to pass.

Also it has proved once again that the majority of the Greek media have a combined IQ of around 50 and lean heavily to the left. I mean to suggest constantly Potami is a centrist party..
To pretend ANEL are right wing - 5 of who saved Tsipras to make this deal possible last week..

This move by Tsipras is a reward to the FYROM communists who fought side by side the ''Greek' communists in their failed attempt to win the Greek civil war.

What will this deal do?

1/ Solidify the Fyrom identity as 'Macedonian.' This is what they will call themselves and what Tsipras and the other Greek leftists want them to call themselves.

2/ This idiotic deal will give Skopians an ambition and raison d'etre. Their new ambition for the next 100 years? To unite 'Northern Macedonia' with Southern Macedonia and take back their 'homeland.'

3/ What we will see after the deal?

Skopians flooding into northern Greece under the EU's freedom of movement act and buying cheap land and houses in that region of Greece.

Skopians and Greek communists building more Skopian language schools in Greece.

Skopians and Greek communists creating Skopian TV channels in Greece, Skopian cultural societies, Skopian unions.

Greek communist and Skopian academics writing 100s of papers in their leftist universities about how Greeks are christian turks and the true and rightful residents are Skopians.



This Prespes deal is sowing the seeds of the destruction and separation of Northern Greece into a multi ethnic, multi lingual entity that will one day seek independence from the rest of Greece as a pseudo post Ottoman mess of a region. Nothing can stop this happening once FYROM gets EU membership under their new name - Northern Macedonia. The world uneducated in the reality will want Northern Macedonia united with Southern Macedonia like North and South Korea.