Turkey

[Reaper]

Turks are simply filling in the self destructive ambiguity Greeks have idiotically allowed in the Aegean. All those play fights in the Aegean with Sunni and Greek jets.. it has a price. The bully has grown up - Greece is still playing with lego and playmobile. As each day passes, Hellas has less sovereignty and is becoming more of an Armenia/Georgia type state where things happen to it out of its control because it has no strategy whatsoever. All those billions Greece has wasted on an airforce and navy - only to end up in the same position as if we didn't have those things because we never used them. Mitsotakis will continue Greece's failed strategy of managed decline and complain to the EU/ NATO (whoever will be bothered to give Greece a platform) as each chunk of Greece's territory gets cut away. Mitsotakis does not have the intelligence to do anything else and neither does the Greek government.

As Turkey finishes recolonising northern Syria, the Greek Aegean will be carved up far more by Turkey with the massive help of Greece's ambiguity and lack of strategy.

Greece stupidly believed it can occupy the middle of the road with Turkey, but like any normal human will tell you, you stand in the middle of the road enough, you get run over.

A bully needs a victim. Greece is more than happy to oblige. The only thing the Turks respect is force, not play fights. Play fights make the Turks stronger.

[Filikieteria1821]

Greece needs to become actively involved in the Libya now, and per this report https://www.news.gr/ellada/article/2...is-liviis.html

There are talks that Greece will be giving BMP-1 tanks to Egypt who may use same versus the Sarajj government of Libya (entity that signed the agreement with Turkey).

A proxy war may end up occurring and honestly, this may be the only way we can save ourselves.

Greece must get it's EEZ sorted with Egypt, and also come to an agreement with Egypt where Greek/Egyptian naval assets not only run throughout the Aegean, but below Crete. Doing so, would prevent Erdogan's next maneuver, which is coming.

But, given Greece's leadership lacks the balls to do it, I doubt they do. I expect them to run to the EU/NATO bitching and complain.

Reaper you said it 100% right, Turkey only understands one thing, and that's force.

If you kick them in the mouth, they'll either back off, or they'll start a war. One way or another, this situation isn't going to get toned down anytime soon because Turkey is trying to fulfill what it's sought out to do for a long time. Erdogan is just the megalomaniac who wants to get it completed sooner.

[Reaper]

100% correct.

To all those Greeks who for years threw up the straw man - 'if we are proactive with Turkey we will all be killed in a war.' That was always a false choice straw man.

You do not sleep in a cage with a hungry tiger and just close your eyes and hope it goes to sleep for the next few months. Turkey knows what it wants. Greece knows what Turkey wants. So Greece had two choices. 1/ Be proactive and form a strategy to stop the eroding of the Greek sovreign state by Turkey. 2/ Playfight and complain to teacher.

Greece chose the later and it is this failed strategy of managed decline and deconstructive ambiguity that (by complete coincidence I am sure ) - gives our politicians and diplomats the least work to do in their jobs..

This idiotic strategy the Greeks chose would not be so harmful if the opponent was not interested in taking Greek land, however for an opponent like Turkey - it played right into their hands.

Greece has refused to form an alliance with Austria and France who don't want the Turks in the EU.
Greece has refused to open fire on Sunni jets illegally flying over the heads of Greek citizens - thus telling the Turks - Greece is not a real country.
Greece has refused to extend its waters to 12 miles - thus telling the Turks bullying works on this victim.
Greece has refused to block Turkish EU access unless it recognises Greece's borders.
Greece has refused to help Christian villages in Syria that have been ethnically cleansed - these peoples are the last vestiges of the Byzantine empire.
Greece has refused to play Russia and the EU off each other to get the best deal for itself.
Greece has refused to condemn anti christian activities in any nation.
Greece has refused to offer the US to relocate the US Turkish nukes to Thrace.

Greece has refused to form a strategy other than managed decline. Greece is a disgrace politically.

[Soprano76]

Greece is in a completely fucked up state. I generally like Mitsotakis, unlike Tsipras who was a fucking joke.

Greece's best hope to counter-balance this new Turkey/Libya agreement is to build on the alliance made with Greece/Cyprus/Israel/Egypt.

Moving US nukes to Thrace is a great idea since that is the area of Greece that is most likely to be stolen from Greece IMO (based on demographic replacement).

[Reaper]

On queue - Greece weighs up all its options and as predicted - the best strategy it can think of? Complain to the EU:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/247128/a...me-border-deal

[Filikieteria1821]

Par for the course with Greece's foreign policy. It's incredible how scared Greece is of standing up to Turkey by itself and what's incredible is how tone deaf Greek politicians are to actually believe the EU will actually do anything of substance versus the Turks.

Greece has itself to blame for all of this, because Turkey has been this way forever and instead of punching the bully in the mouth, you pretend to ignore them until the bully gets too big to knock out. Turkey is approaching the "too big to knock out" stage and Greece is floundering.

Very sad

[Reaper]

Par for the course with Greece's foreign policy. It's incredible how scared Greece is of standing up to Turkey by itself and what's incredible is how tone deaf Greek politicians are to actually believe the EU will actually do anything of substance versus the Turks.

Greece has itself to blame for all of this, because Turkey has been this way forever and instead of punching the bully in the mouth, you pretend to ignore them until the bully gets too big to knock out. Turkey is approaching the "too big to knock out" stage and Greece is floundering.

Very sad

What is funny is that every time Merkel says Turkey is a vital partner - which most the brain dead MEPs agree with - it seems Greece is just hoping that they are lying? And that the EU will magically decide to stick up for Greece instead of do what they always do - placate Turkey.

Greece is complicit in the rise of Turkish ambitions. Every single move since the 1920s has made Turkey stronger.

Greece has no strategy, no logic, no confidence.

[Reaper]

Turkey getting ready to really go in for the kill and take advantage of Greece's constructive ambiguity over its own territory.. Turkey openly talking about how Greek islands have no EEZ tonight.

https://www.news247.gr/politiki/pige...&utm_term=Pos3

https://www.tovima.gr/2019/12/03/pol...den-exoun-aoz/

All those play fights in the Aegean many idiot Greeks defended as being the only option available... how wrong they were.. how stupid they were.. All those stupid Greek journalists boasting how a Greek jet buzzed a Turkish fighter over a Greek island.. and that was supposed to be some kind of victory for Greece?? When in fact - the Turks would only leave the area to refuel.. We never won anything.. we only lost and showed weakness.

A man breaks into your home - walks into your lounge. You going to play fight with him? Greece's strategy is absurd. If I was a conspiracy theorist I would say the strategy was created by Pro Turkish Greeks (like that snake Pangalos) it is so naturally stupid and counter productive.

Greece needs to unilaterally declare 12 miles from any Greek piece of land. Where Turkish land interferes, you dived between the two like every where else on earth. Until this happens, Turkey will continue to siphon off parts of Greece - bit by bit. Seems Turkey is now hurrying the process. If I were them, I would too.

[Filikieteria1821]

https://www.news.gr/kosmos/article/2...-ti-livii.html
Πυροδοτεί το κλίμα ανάμεσα σε Αθήνα και Άγκυρα ο Τούρκος υπουργός Ενέργειας

Η Τουρκία σε συνάρτηση με το πρόσφατο μνημόνιο που υπέγραψε με τη Λιβύη, σχεδιάζει νέες γεωτρήσεις και έρευνες σε περιοχές της θαλάσσιας δικαιοδοσίας της που αναφέρονται σε αυτό, δήλωσε ο Τούρκος υπουργός Ενέργειας, Φατίχ Ντονμέζ.

Η δήλωση αυτή έγινε λίγη ώρα πριν τη συνάντηση Μητσοτάκη-Ερντογάν στο περιθώριο της Συνόδου Κορυφής του ΝΑΤΟ, πυροδοτώντας το κλίμα ανάμεσα σε Ελλάδα και Τουρκία. Σύμφωνα με την ανταποκρίτρια του κυπριακού τ/σ Σίγμα στην Τουρκία, Μαρία Ζαχαράκη, ο Ντονμέζ δήλωσε: «Στο πλαίσιο της συμφωνίας (με τη Λιβύη), οι εταιρείες μας θα ξεκινήσουν έρευνες και εξορύξεις πετρελαίου και φυσικού αερίου, στις περιοχές που θα δώσουμε σχετική άδεια, όπως έγινε και σε άλλες περιοχές»

This is war then

[Reaper]

Not for the old Greek political guard of Turkish enablers. They believe the solution is complaining to the EU and the media seem to agree..

https://www.news247.gr/politiki/mpak...s.7543757.html

EU giving out meaningless platitudes to placate the Greeks..

https://www.news247.gr/kosmos/pliris...s.7543949.html

[Reaper]

Mitsotakis met with Erdogan.

The result?

https://www.tovima.gr/2019/12/04/pol...-empistosynis/

Or in pictorial form?

[Filikieteria1821]

https://www.nordicmonitor.com/2019/1...ment-revealed/

Copy of the MoU signed between Turkey & Greece. This to me seems like a casus beli for Greece, Cyprus, Egypt and for any other med country that gives a shit about their territorial waters

[Reaper]

https://www.nordicmonitor.com/2019/1...ment-revealed/

Copy of the MoU signed between Turkey & Greece. This to me seems like a casus beli for Greece, Cyprus, Egypt and for any other med country that gives a shit about their territorial waters

For a genuine nation - I agree 100%, this move would be a Casus Beli. For Greece that operating a strategy of managed decline - it is just something to complain to NATO/EU about and be ignored..

[Filikieteria1821]

Rumor has it though that Greece has mobilized more military assets to Crete in the event a Turkish drill ship comes to look for gas

[Reaper]

Curious that Greece threw out the Libyan diplomat but not the Turkish counterpart.

Weak sauce again..

Again, every single action makes Turkey stronger. Nothing Greece does harms Turkey - only increases its power.