Turkey

[Reaper]

Gold

[JVC]

Gold

This would be a huge turning point in our favor! Keep it up Erdogan, we're beginning to like you! Maybe after this is over and you get exiled from Turkey, we can pay you back with a exotic villa on some remote quiet Greek island....all paid by us, servants and unlimited escort service. After all you did so much for Greece!

[Filikieteria1821]

I view this as posturing by the U.S. I think every so often they make warning shots. They did so by having a base in alexandroupoli, offering greece the f-35, allowing the sale of non-lethal weapons to Cyprus, agreeing to train with Cypriot soldiers, and recently agreeing to open a center for land, open seas and port security which will provide exports control, port and maritime security and cybersecurity.

These are all small steps at either reminding turkey that there are other avenues the US can explore, while also slowly moving its attention and hopes away from Turkey.

I still believe there are too many people in Washington who believe that Turkey can be salvaged after Erdogan dies, but these people are the same people that believed Turkey was a democracy.

Turkey has been a shit stain on human history for its entire history, and were hoping that a muslim country not as radical (or one that has done an amazing job of playing off that it's not) can bridge europe/middle east together.

I think Greece's foreign policy has woken up a bit with the agreements with Egypt & Italy, and I think an EEZ with Cyprus and an extension of the 12 for the dodecanese and eastern islands will come, but will come in the face of increased threats and a breakdown in "talks".

My fear is that Germany being the mediator will force Greece into a corner, and I hope that mitsotakis has the will to walk away in that case. He knows that Greeks are sick and tired of turkey and are willing to fight, and he should know a deal benefiting turkey, with its nazi brother Germany, would be seen as a government defeat.

[Brklyngrk]

Apparently a member of the EU council informed Turkey, cross the line with Greece and there will be severe consequences. Erdogan admitted today that he moved the Oruc back to Turkey to allow for negotiations. If you remember, initially they said routine maintenance. In his typical banter, he then proceeded it would return. He keeps shooting himself in the foot.

[Don Giovanni]

I think the US issued a denial that they would move the base to Greece, but they might relocate away from Turkey to Greece, in part, and elsewhere.

[Don Giovanni]

Overall, things are looking better than they were. I still worry our allies may try to pressure us into conceding something we shouldn't for the sake of peace.

[Don Giovanni]

[aek66]

i also read that iran hacked various personal accounts of greek naval officers. not sure what that was all about.

[aek66]

i read today that the likelihood of greece acquiring 4 new acquitaine-class FREMMs from france is in doubt, and that greece will acquire 4 new MEKO frigates from german dockyards.

spreading the wealth to germany. is this why germany seems to be re-evaluating it's position on the greek-turkish dispute?? the rafales aren't the top variant and now this - the marginally faster MEKOs displace apprx. only half the tonnage of a FREMM. hmmmm...also, the new 4 helicopters could be only for the 4 new frigates, and not have independent roles (hunt subs/repel naval troop invasion) based off islands near the turkish coast.

did greece just score a goal in the world cup final and then have it's captain sent off 7 seconds after the goal??

we'll wait and see, but, i had and still have my fears...immediately after the announcements of upgrading and updating all the branches of the military.

[Don Giovanni]

Who needs enemies with allies like these.

[Don Giovanni]

Our American friends:

the US seems less than impressed with France’s actions in defending Greece and Cyprus against Turkish aggression.

“Some of this is Macron wanting to be the big man in Europe, which is the same with Erdoğan,” said a U.S. envoy in Europe. “There is a solution to be had with the Turks.”

[Don Giovanni]

Read: A solution that shares the resources like Erdogan wants. A solution that demilitarizes Greek islands while Cyprus remains occupied with a Turkish military or adopts a two-state solution. To hell with their solutions!

[Don Giovanni]

[Don Giovanni]

There are competing theories on what that means discussed in the article.

[Don Giovanni]

Yes! They're the new Iran, they're Islamists! Speak damn it! Bang a drum! Get it through the head of everyone else.

[aek66]

Who needs enemies with allies like these.

greece is chasing it's own tail here. turkey needs to pay a 'tax' for it's bullshit, otherwise, the bullshit will continue. the EU sanctioning 1 sole turkish company, but, letting turkey off the hook from more comprehensive sanctions, is a reward for aggression - that played out perfectly on the turkish flowchart.

create a crisis-expect greek/cypriot reaction-crisis reaches red lines-get EU to over-ride greek/cyprus concerns and force greece to negotiate with turkey-get greece to the table

this time, the flowchart was nearly true to form. the deviations from form were advantageous to greece (alliance with france/'supposed' greek military build-up), but, at the end of the day...turkey has a chance to walk out of this with gift eez zones AND greece removing some military from aegean/e.med islands. greece HAS NOT taken advantage of it's new alliance and potential projected power.

greece should have told macron that the tax turkey will pay for it's behavior will be some sanctions and NO TALKS for 6 months, future talks compliant upon no exploration and turkey silencing it's war hawks. tell macron that greece and cyprus would hope for french support in the face of german pressure for turkey.

again, i'm very suspicious of the usual suspects in greece looking at the projected military build-up as a personal money making opportunity. these people might as well be turkish spies, treasonous bastards.

4 new frigates? buy power. FREMM over MEKO. 18 new rafales? i understand all of the rafales are of the older variant, which don't have the same avionics and can't carry more powerful weapons. buying the f-35s will stop turkey dead in it's tracks. turkey is banned from purchasing these 5.0 generation fighters. buy them. the corvettes that greece will co-manufacture with israel are mini corvettes. greece is selling bonds and treasuries to finance this, regardless of energy prices in the future, the gas will pay for these military purchases and hopefully, more.

therefore, purchase the best.

[Brklyngrk]

I thought Germany's argument was to demilitarize both, the Greek islands and the Turkish coast. Either way, it shouldn't be done.

[Don Giovanni]

Mitsotakis and Macron are scheduled for a call tonight. The EU hasn't had that big meeting yet. Michel, the EU commish, had "covid symptoms," so it got postpone. It's easy to make the connection that it was faked to postpone a decision on major sanctions. So they put through a symbolic one against the Turks in Libya.

As for the meeting with Turkey, I can only imagine Mitsotakis is there to humor. There's no way we are going to pull out our defenses when Turkey occupies Cyprus and threatens to invade our islands.