Turkey

[Reaper]

There's nothing clever about a man who thinks usury is a Jewish conspiracy.

Again, you are talking in general terms. In general terms I would tend to agree, Erdogan is not that smart. However compared to Armenian, Syrian, Greek leadership? He is smarter. It is not even in doubt. He is exceptionally politically astute as were his predecessors.

The reason they use jihadis is because they took out everyone in their own military due to paranoia they may hold loyalties to the West. Like aek66 said, Turkey was run from the barracks. Erdogan has jailed the barracks. Now look at Turkey, there isn't a war they won't pick because that joker is in charge.

Going back to my earlier analogy, animals often fight within the pack also. Doesn't damage the end game once a new alfa establishes himself, which Erdogan did. As for the use of jihadists, turks have been using foreign religious fanatics for centuries to do their fighting for them. Nothing to do with the failed coup which far too much is being made of anyway. Turkey often has coups.

I don't know how you could say half things you said. Erdogan isn't any better than Hitler. The only thing he has going for him is that he isn't worse than Hitler.

Again, this is emotional. In the cold light of day, what rules these men is the desire to conquer and ethnically cleanse what they believe is theirs. Both are hugely dangerous.

The Venizelos you speak of is Kyriakos' great great uncle. Mitsotakis was always someone who was meant to help restore the Greek economy and he's certainly smart in that way.

To improve on Syriza's version of the Greek economy takes little brains. I agree however he is better than Syriza but I disagree he has shown any natural intelligence.. he has at best been more sensible concerning the Greek economy. Perhaps he would make a decent economic minister for a country like Greece, but definitely not a PM.

Maybe he is a bit out of his depth in dealing with Erdogan, but not for a lack of brains. Unlike Erdogan, Mitsotakis doesn't view the Greek people as cattle and cannon fodder. It takes a real asshole to treat your own like that.

A few things. Firstly it has been hugely damaging to Greece and Turkey's neighbours when people attempt to separate out Erdogan from the majority of Turks - who vote him in constantly. So when you say he is an asshole for risking the lives of his own people, his own people vote him in in full knowledge that they are prepared to give a blood sacrifice for reconquested lands. Again, it has been hugely damaging to Greece and Turkey's neighbours when the Greeks naively and dangerously assume Turks give a crap over their economy the way Greeks do or Westerners do. The Byzantines also could not get their brains around the fact Turks have different desires to Europeans and are willing to make sacrifices the Western mind would never entertain. As for Mitsotakis, he doesn't have to view Greek people like cattle or gun fodder to establish Greek sovereignty - that is Dora's famous strawman. All he has to do is give Greece a normal sovereignty through declarations of defendable and fair eez's and he has failed miserably.

He's less of a risk taker for that reason and also inexperienced. But you willfully ignore that even if Greece made that declaration in the Aegean as you say, Turkey could still send a ship into the exact same waters and what then? There's no guarantee it stops Turkey, especially a Turkey as you describe her. If Greece fired upon a Turkish ship, what would happen? How prepared is Greece for the risks that entails?

Declaring a 12 mile eez on the Greek mainland coast and central Aegean is as much for Greece's own security as it is showing the world Greece has sovereign areas like normal countries do. By not doing this and having piecemeal eez's across Greece of different lengths etc it creates a weak front both at home and abroad, it creates confusion and a type of beta sovereignty based on political bartering and flux. If Turkey does invade a 12 mile eez in the central aegean, a 3rd party country can look a a map, instantly see who is in the right and who is the wrong whether they chose to back the right side or not. By not having these clear borders deep in Greek territory, Greece sows confusion and encourages grey areas. This suits Turkey completely. It takes a very low IQ to pursue the latter and Mitsotakis has pursued it. Nothing to with experience or inexperience. As for the causi belli, that changes daily - it included the whole of Greece up until last month, now it is the Aegean. It is a bluff. The red lines have always the Dodecanese for the Turks. That is all they talk about. Mitsotakis putting the central Aegean and Greek mainland coast on their menu also is deeply stupid. A lesser mind analysing Mitsotakis's self defeating strategy would entertain a conspiracy stating Mitsotakis is a crypto Turk who wishes to destabilise Greece. Having spent a lot of time in Greece, I have met people who actually believe that. However, having spent a lot of time in Greece, I have also met people just as stupid as Mitsotakis so I know his stupidity is stupidity, not insidious philturkism. However his sister does indeed admire Turkey and Islam and her weekly columns in ToVima and other papers does the bidding of the Neo Ottomans.

I think we all know Greece needs French support to minimize a Turkish threat of war and if he can secure that the rest will follow. And if we play our cards right, even the Germans, Americans, and Russians will lose their patience with the Turks. There's only so much the Turks can get away with in the end.

The US will not lose patience with the Turks while they have 50 nuclear warheads in Incirlik.
Russia will not lose patience with Turkey because Turkey helps Russia weaken NATO from the inside. Also they do billions in trade in arms and infrastructure.
Germany will never lose patience with Turkey. Historical allies, large Turkish population in Germany and 100s of German factories in Turkey.
EU - see above because Germany dictates EU foreign policy.

France is the only nation that may help in some way and maybe Austria if Mitsotakis had the IQ to develop the relationship further. There is a lot Turkish resentment in Austria. However, Mitsotakis needs to build a base of security and sovereignty in Greece first and he has failed to do that for the reasons described in detail above. So far he has done everything the Turks have wanted. Mitsotakis is by education and trade a financial consultant. He would be much better suited as an economic minister or if ever he was a PM - for a safe nation like Portugal. Not a nation like Greece with an expanding Turkey on the door step. To deal with something as dangerous as an expanding Turkey you require a substantial IQ. He doesn't have that.

[Brklyngrk]

I view the current administration's reactions to the provocations differently. We had endured what was the worst economic crisis since the great depression. To exasperate the situation, the former government picked a fight with Europe, giving us the label of Europe's problem child. We lost a decade worth of economic prosperity and goodwill. Even our staunchest pro-EU allies had a hard time siding with us. In the meanwhile, we were not addressing the migration issues that were occurring. We simply turned a blind eye and let the migrants go through Greece further annoying our EU allies. In comes Mitsotakis, he is faced with crisis after crisis. He has steered the economy to growth through a combination of tax cuts, privatization and investments. Microsoft recently announced a Billion dollar investment in the country. Tesla, Pfizer are other companies are investing in Greece. That only happens because of the confidence these companies have in Greece and the government.

Now to the Turkish issue. Mitsotakis ability to stem the migrant crisis was nothing short of brilliant. He closed the border, mobilized the armed forces and got Frontex to send thousands of soldiers to the front lines. He highlighted the issue as a European issue and showed the rest of the EU who the antagonizing party is. The fact that they had to back down was a huge win for Greece, not to mention the goodwill Greece got at how the defended the European borders. During this time, Greece got closer to its allies and received concrete support from member states like France/Austria/Poland.

Regarding the current situation, receiving French support was a HUGE win. It tilted the conversation and made Turkey think twice. Greece has further developed ties with UAE, Egypt and Israel. The US visited Greece and Cyprus. In fact, it was the first time a sitting secretary visiting Nicosia and not whatever government you want to call the occupied north. He has done the best he can in the current situation. We are a country that has not invested in our military in over 10 years. We are smaller, have less military vehicles and less money. What we are now doing, on a small budget, is bringing up our military back to were it is supposed to be. Regarding the 12 mile EEZ, while we are entitled to it, if we do it now, we will be accused of being the party of not wanting peace and will give Turkey an avenue to make some sort of military strike. He is being calculated and buying time. I do not thing he is an idiot, but rather being calculated. If you think there is a party out there that could have done better, I would have loved to vote for them.

[Don Giovanni]

You lose me when you call Mitsotakis a crypto-Turk. And you're answer doesn't really solve the issue. Put it this way, why should we trust Germany or the US to treat it like our waters and helps us? Under Erdogan the Turks invaded Syria and took Syrian land, at the expense of American allies, so it may not be the deterrence you believe it to be. This has been something Turkey declared an act of war for a long time now. Turkey has never recognized the international law which recognizes our waters. Until we can deter the Turks with assurance, is that risk worth taking? Do you believe Greece is prepared for that war or prepared at least for more dangerous provocations that could easily draw us into a war at any moment. Greek sovereignty won't be secure simply because we say so. And at the end of the day, we can lose a lot more men, if not more than that, thinking as you suggest. And if Greece can secure proper support as the Turks alienate that support, we may gain even more in the end, but we have to satisfy our allies and do things the way they want to the degree we can tolerate. This is not a simple matter with straight forward answers.

[Reaper]

You lose me when you call Mitsotakis a crypto-Turk.

But I didn't call him that. Read it again. Remember, take out the emotion. I called his sister that. Just to remind you of his sister's words:

"I strongly believe that in the so-called Western world we have more stereotypes than we care to admit.There is a general misconception, based on false readings of the Qur'an, that Islam treats women as inferior to men."

And you're answer doesn't really solve the issue.

There is no silver bullet just actions that make things worse and actions that make thing better. You cannot idealise a simple solution.

Put it this way, why should we trust Germany or the US to treat it like our waters and helps us?

We should trust neither. I listed clearly why neither can be trusted. I think you misread my post.

Under Erdogan the Turks invaded Syria and took Syrian land, at the expense of American allies, so it may not be the deterrence you believe it to be.

The example is unrelatable to Greece. Turkey invaded war-torn Syria. Greece is not Syria and also, I think you believe I am calling for US help or something like that? Nothing like that was mentioned in my post.

This has been something Turkey declared an act of war for a long time now. Turkey has never recognized the international law which recognizes our waters.

Again, reread my post, I mentioned the 12 mile eez is about domestic and 3rd party legitimacy, nothing to do with what Turkey does. It is about nation building.

Until we can deter the Turks with assurance, is that risk worth taking? Do you believe Greece is prepared for that war or prepared at least for more dangerous provocations that could easily draw us into a war at any moment. Greek sovereignty won't be secure simply because we say so. And at the end of the day, we can lose a lot more men, if not more than that, thinking as you suggest. And if Greece can secure proper support as the Turks alienate that support, we may gain even more in the end, but we have to satisfy our allies and do things the way they want to the degree we can tolerate. This is not a simple matter with straight forward answers.

You are torn between defending Greek sovereignty with soldiers and not defending Greek sovereignty with soldiers. Let me make it as clear as I can again.

A nation not willing to defend its territory - does not own that territory.

You need to stop emotionalism and idealism; Erdogan is an assohle, countries will realise Turkey is bad.. Turks wont stand their economy losing more money.. All this is superfluous nonsense. Only look at the facts on the ground. It is very clear cut. If a nation like Turkey knows a nation like Greece is not willing to physically defend its territory - there will be issues. Greeks were shouting through megaphones for the turks to leave their EEZ, this is not a real nation's response. Do not involve yourself in strawmen of millions of dead Greeks if Greece defends its territory as Dora does. Never conflate defending territory with disgusting adventurist invasions of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. Turkey will not start a war with Greece if the Cyclades, Sporades, Saronic islands and Greek mainland get a legitimate and securing 12 mile eez. To even believe they will is absurd and adds legitimacy to Erdogan the way Mitsotakis did with the hesitant Ionian expansion.

[Don Giovanni]

A lesser mind analysing Mitsotakis's self defeating strategy would entertain a conspiracy stating Mitsotakis is a crypto Turk who wishes to destabilise Greece. Having spent a lot of time in Greece, I have met people who actually believe that. However, having spent a lot of time in Greece, I have also met people just as stupid as Mitsotakis so I know his stupidity is stupidity, not insidious philturkism. However his sister does indeed admire Turkey and Islam and her weekly columns in ToVima and other papers does the bidding of the Neo Ottomans.

You did call him that.

By the way, the Turks will argue, and some, like the Germans, will listen that us Greeks can't claim sovereignty 12 miles off the coast of our islands without a bilateral agreement. That's what the Turks are going to say. When two sides can't agree, there is two ways to settle it: war or court. The Hague will favor us, but another international arbiter may not.

The greatest priority is ensuring Greece doesn't become imperiled by a Turkey that could become too powerful. That's not merely a Greek priority, it's increasingly becoming a priority for other countries in the region, hence France's support for our cause. That comes with protecting our territory, but we need to protect our territory in a smart way that minimizes or even prevents the loss of life. You can be cavalier with your own life, but not with lives of your fellow Greek. No Greek should be made die because of Erdogan's idiotic ambitions that you consider so smart. No Greek should have to suffer as they do in Armenia now, not for this scum, and if we play it smart, we won't have to. In the end, Erdogan will go to Putin with his tail between his legs and be made to wait once again in a lobby surrounded by images of the Russian imperial army killing Ottomans. He will go the way of Maduro if we make the right choices and Erdogan continues on this path.

All we can say is this: Greece has to secure French support, to mobilize their military in assisting us against any prospective Turkish invasion of our islands if we wish to achieve the best possible outcome, which again is about minimizing the loss of life as much as it is about protecting our sovereignty. That invasion threat also extends to Cyprus and Kastellorizo, which are the most vulnerable to Turkish advantages. A French intervention is the only thing that can seriously deter Turkey at this moment in time. It will take awhile before Greece can be better positioned to defend herself on her own, to minimize a loss of Greek life and land, but also to gain even more support internationally against the Turks. Otherwise we can be in a war tomorrow taking the risks you think need to be taken, when maybe they don't need to be, and that war may last several years--then you can tell me how the situation in Greece is different from Syria. What you say has risks. If Mitsotakis wants to take a position where he will minimize loss of life while also securing our sovereignty, then that's his position. It doesn't make him a crypto-Turk. Maybe it's not the right position, maybe we do need to make the bolder decisions, but we don't know that for sure.

[Reaper]

You did call him that.

Nope I said a lesser mind would call him that - ie an idiot.. I think you are too emotional, I am using very clear English and you are working hard to change what I said:

A lesser mind analysing Mitsotakis's self defeating strategy would entertain a conspiracy stating Mitsotakis is a crypto Turk who wishes to destabilise Greece

I did however call his sister a cryptoTurk and she is. Don't be on the defence all the time. Nothing I am saying is outrageous. Most Greeks you meet in Greece believe Mitso is an idiot and his sister a crypto Turk. She is despised. There is nothing groundbreaking here so stop being on the defensive.

By the way, the Turks will argue, and some, like the Germans, will listen that us Greeks can't claim sovereignty 12 miles off the coast of our islands without a bilateral agreement. That's what the Turks are going to say. When two sides can't agree, there is two ways to settle it: war or court. The Hague will favor us, but another international arbiter may not.

I am not sure the Hague will favour Greece necessarily. I would say it is 50/50. The 15 judges of the ICJ are international UN stooges and the UN is not to be trusted. I have family that work for the UN, they receive millions in donations from muslim donors and they admit this affects policy.

The greatest priority is ensuring Greece doesn't become imperiled by a Turkey that could become too powerful. That's not merely a Greek priority, it's increasingly becoming a priority for other countries in the region, hence France's support for our cause. That comes with protecting our territory, but we need to protect our territory in a smart way that minimizes or even prevents the loss of life. You can be cavalier with your own life, but not with lives of your fellow Greek.

But again, there is nuance to life and real politik. War through adventurism is being flippant with human life. Defending the sovereignty of your own nation's borders against a transparently aggressive and expansionist neighbour is not really debatable. You refuse to defend your land, it is not yours. Again, this is not a complicated concept. Mercenary war, adventurism, holy wars etc - these types of wars are the very essence of humans being cavalier with human life. Defending your nation's sovereignty is not and will never be just as defending one's own house.

No Greek should be made die because of Erdogan's idiotic ambitions that you consider so smart.

Again, you are avoiding nuance to emotionalise. Erdogan is not idiotic because he is an animalistic Turk. Dogs are not stupid either, they are highly intelligent. Just because fido can't play playstation with you, doesn't him an idiots. Stop for the love of God trying to humanise Erdogan and compare him to what a Greek or European would do. This methodology is a failure and is based in leftist thought that all humans share a common humanity. They don't. Erdogan is a clever animal who comes from a culture of conquest a la Genghis Khan. Why an earth that should hurt your feelings is beyond me but please attempt to be mature with my opinion.

No Greek should have to suffer as they do in Armenia now

Remember how I told you there is a difference between defending your sovreinty and adventurism? I think 3 times I said it? It seems you ignored it again. Azeris are attacking NK - an area in Azerbaijan the Armenian army invaded to protect the rights of the native Armenian population of NK in Azerbaijan. That is different to Greece defending its sovereign borders. The Azeris have been careful not to fire a single bullet into Armenia for this very reason.

In the end, Erdogan will go to Putin with his tail between his legs and be made to wait once again in a lobby surrounded by images of the Russian imperial army killing Ottomans. He will go the way of Maduro if we make the right choices and Erdogan continues on this path.

A nice image indeed.

All we can say is this: Greece has to secure French support, to mobilize their military in assisting us against any prospective Turkish invasion of our islands if we wish to achieve the best possible outcome, which again is about minimizing the loss of life as much as it is about protecting our sovereignty.

For me the chances of France signing such an agreement are slim. The better way to do it is to get the French first to acknowledge along with the EU, UN and international community all the islands up until the Dodecanese with a 12 mile eez - if Mitso ever has the spine to declare it. I believe such an action would not result in war but increased security and legitimacy for Greece. The dodecanese eez can go to the Hague, NOT the entire Aegean and Greek mainland coast.

That invasion threat also extends to Cyprus and Kastellorizo, which are the most vulnerable to Turkish advantages. A French intervention is the only thing that can seriously deter Turkey at this moment in time.

I doubt this agreement can be secured. Would be super if it was however. Cyrpus I am not concerned about. Kasterizo can be filled with Greek troops supported by the Greek airforce and navy, with US and French assets meters away watching Greece defend its sovereign territory.

It will take awhile before Greece can be better positioned to defend herself on her own, to minimize a loss of Greek life and land, but also to gain even more support internationally against the Turks.

Depends on the circumstances. Greece as it stands has the capability of defence imo. However this can be improved to be far more dynamic and robust. A Turkish invasion is not on the cards but if it was, I would still believe Greeks should defend their land and is capable to do so.

Otherwise we can be in a war tomorrow taking the risks you think need to be taken, when maybe they don't need to be, and that war may last several years--then you can tell me how the situation in Greece is different from Syria.

I don't consider defending sovereign territory a risk. A consider it a choice between if the land is yours or Turkey's. Military adventurism is risky as I keep repeating but that is different.

What you say has risks.

I don't consider it a risk. I consider it a central reality of a sovereign nation. Risks are to do with any warfare other than defending your sovereign land. 100's of young Greeks die every month in bike and car accidents. 100's dying to defend sovereign Greek land from expansionist Turks on Kasterizo in a worst case scenario is not a risk imo, it is a duty and sets an important precedent. My grandfather was in that army that marched into central Anatolia in 1921. That whole advance was adventurism and for me that carried massive risks and all the questions you are raising about the loss of Greek lives is relevant to that type of warfare, not defending existing borders which should be seen simply as a duty. I find the concept of 'risking' Greek lives to defend supposedly sovereign greek land absurd.

If Mitsotakis wants to take a position where he will minimize loss of life while also securing our sovereignty, then that's his position.

That is not his position. His position is no Greek lives should be 'risked' to defend Greek sovereignty currently. I believe this is wrong for all the reasons carefully detailed.

It doesn't make him a crypto-Turk.

See first point above.

Maybe it's not the right position, maybe we do need to make the bolder decisions, but we don't know that for sure.

This whole issue is littered with uncertainties at every level. We have a few facts so we can go through them. Again, please attempt to read what I say carefully so you don't misappropriate meaning and this will avoid meaningless back and forths not related to the main points. As the ancient Greeks would do, we will look for certainties and build around those. We will use reductionism primarily to root out some key truths. Feel free to debate their veracity.

Although you have great difficulty with this concept, for me it is an obvious fact. The Turks are animalistic. Any signs of weakness - they will attempt to move on. I don't think that is in doubt. A dog barks waiting for the recipient to flinch, when there is a flinch, the dog advances.

So bearing that mind, what are signs of weakness?

1/ Submitting to Turkey's fabricated rules on what Greece can call its own, deep in Greece's own territory. The blackmail causi belli. Greece submits to this Turkish blackmail. What does this tell turkey and indeed the world about Greece and its sovereignty. What does this tell the world about how Greece regards its own legitimacy, sovereignty and even military capability?

2/ Does Turkey often bluff and threaten without consequence? Yes it does. Does it sometimes follow through? Yes. Greece has to decide how valuable being 'a real boy' as pinocchio would put it - ie being a normal sovereign country is worth. 10 Greeks? 100? 1000? What is the blood sacrifice to show Turkey and the world Greece has more sovereignty than say Kosovo or Bosnia or other former unstable Ottoman colonies? Greece has decided currently not one Greek should die to protect greek sovereignty. What does that tell animalistic Turkey about Greece? Does that knowledge make expansionist Turkey stronger or weaker - more likely to proceed or more likely to retreat? More likely to continue pushing into Greece or less likely? For me danegeld is the wrong strategy and will result in more loss of territory.

3/ What are the chances of France risking a single human for Greece - which is all Turkey cares about? When it comes to a conflict, can you imagine any foreign national dying for Greece considering Turkey's international position? If not, how should Greece build its strategy?

[Don Giovanni]

Deleted. First and last warning Don. Warned you stop with emotionalism and you doubled down. Next time it will be a permanent ban.

The 'kid' as you put was not a kid, not who he said he was, not where he said he was from (IP) and was promoting and advertising Turkish Government sponsored shows on this website despite being told not to - see rule 1 in the forum rules. Now you are championing him on here like a fallen martyr to attempt to demonstrate my own immaturity(?) and that is not tolerated. The rules are clear. There was nothing emotional or immature about his departure and there will be nothing in yours. Unlike Greece, I will not allow grey areas to develop concerning the stability of what this forum stands for I am afraid - unlike Phantis, everything is transparent here. If you want to continue as normal without personal attacks concerning previous members attempting to undermine this forum, fine, you can have a clean slate with no problem - I don't hold vendettas. If you want to double down further however and go down for pride and for AEKfwt21's honour, unlike Greece, there are clear borders here and you will find yourself on the outside of them like he did. The floor is yours - go out in a blaze of glory or obey the very basic rules laid out. If there is even a sniff of decent in your next post concerning what I have just said - you are fully aware of the consequences. You do not take my advice, that is OK, but I will give some anyway. Take a day away, think about what you have posted and what I have on this thread, read it all again - but without emotionalism, without making stuff up about other posters, without misreading my posts as you did previously and then make your decision the next day. You are a very good poster and I like you but I will not hesitate when it comes to stability. I will fully respect whatever decision you make.

[Filikieteria1821]

Oruc Reiss making its way 6 1/2 NM from Kastelorrizo defying Greece's sovereignty and blowing up any "peace talks".

Greece needs to immediately extend to 12 NM, sign an EEZ with Cyprus, place an embargo on turkish goods, and veto any decision related to turkey in the EU.

It's time to stop playing games

[Reaper]

Oruc Reiss making its way 6 1/2 NM from Kastelorrizo defying Greece's sovereignty and blowing up any "peace talks".

Greece needs to immediately extend to 12 NM, sign an EEZ with Cyprus, place an embargo on turkish goods, and veto any decision related to turkey in the EU.

It's time to stop playing games

It's a very good point - there should be an embargo on turkish products.

Agree on all the other points. The games have to stop. The world is reading more and more about this 'disputed region' which suits the Turks.

[Filikieteria1821]

Heiko Mass had a visit planned to Ankara which he has canceled. His meetings with Cyprus and Greece are still scheduled to proceed.

Germany perhaps has realized that it's approach of too many carrots and no sticks has failed.

Time to hold Turkey accountable as it is the common denominator in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Cyprus, Azerbaijan/Armenia conflict, east med

[Reaper]

Heiko Mass had a visit planned to Ankara which he has canceled. His meetings with Cyprus and Greece are still scheduled to proceed.

Germany perhaps has realized that it's approach of too many carrots and no sticks has failed.

Time to hold Turkey accountable as it is the common denominator in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Cyprus, Azerbaijan/Armenia conflict, east med

Sanctions should be followed by a unilateral 12 mile eez. The world will see the sanctions put on Turkey and immediately understand the 12 mile eez put by Greece to enforce security and sovereignty.

Mitsotakis should be on the phone to Cyprus now hammering out the joint EEZ and coordinating the date.

The world is fully aware of erdogan's footprints all over Iraq, Syria, Libya and now Armenia - the timing is perfect.

[Filikieteria1821]

I wouldn't be shocked if Greece and Cyprus already have an EEZ agreement waiting to be signed but were waiting for Turkey to ramp up tensions to have a more justified reason in the court of public opinion

[Reaper]

Turkey is at an all time low in global public opinion - even normal Germans are getting irritated with Merkels' constant supplication. Greece should now seize on the moment. This should be coordinated with Macron too.

[Reaper]

Greek Government deciding whether to extend to 12 miles eez the last few hours.

https://www.tovima.gr/2020/10/12/pol...seon-i-athina/

Who will win? Dora's philosophy of ambiguity and dialogue or the core ancient and contemporary principle of national sovereignty concerning one's own territory.

[Don Giovanni]

You won't need to ban. I'm done here. Bye.