Turkey

[Don Giovanni]

The opposite is true. As the economy tanks, Turks will go to war and I think Erdogan won the civil war after purging his country of anyone remotely associated with this rival Gullen. It doesn't help that the US, Germany, and Italy are in bed with Turkey and the only support we can get is from France (who have their own ambitions that somewhat coincide with ours in Libya).

First and foremost, Mitsotakis needs to speak loudly. He needs to draw attention to Erdogan's madness and put it him in the same boat as the Iranians. All Erdogan does is call us Nazis. As we all know, the Turks were allied with the Nazis. We we resisted the Nazis, unlike other countries that rolled right over for them or allied with them. The result was we got back the Dodecanese islands they like to pretend is theirs.

Greece has to stand up to Turkey. That means all of us have to prepare for the prospect of war with the Turks. All of you who are left leaning and think guns are bad, you better learn how to use one. This is why people own AR-15s. So they're prepared for times like these. You better be ready because you don't want to be one of those guys who 10 or 20 years down the road has to sit there and keep quiet while others reminisce about what it was like on the front lines and their regiments. It may not come to that, but you better be ready or you'll wish you were. If it comes to war, then as Metaxas once said, "alors c'est la guerre."

[AEKftw21]

You don't need to take it so seriously, I can assure the chances of a war in the next few years is extremely low. In fact, I don't know if we will ever see a proper conflict between developed nations this century. Both Greece and Turkey are NATO members and we are also trade partners.

When it comes to Nazis and Turkey, Turkey was lucky to be one of the nations that the Axis weren't interested in. They remained neutral in WW2 until the very end, when they ''joined'' the Allied Forces for mainly diplomatic reasons.

What I would like Greece to do is make a bold claim for the Aegeum sea and ensure that Turkey, Libya and no one else are ever gonna threaten us.

[Filikieteria1821]

Aek, I used to think a conflict between Greece and Turkey was not likely because of how much is at stake, but Erdogan has built up his provocative actions and rhetoric steadily and his maps show that Erdogan will continue to keep his foot on the gas. Erdogan wants to see Turkey expand its borders and I would think the powers that be wouldn't care much if Turkey decided to take an uninhabited island or two if it means saving the economic dilemmas and geopolitical dilemmas that would arise in stopping turkey.

The "Mavi Vatan" or Blue Homeland doctrine of Erdogan's foreign policy is a real thing and Greeks across the globe have to start realizing that downplaying the possibility of war because both countries are part of NATO is falling into the trap that Turkey has set for Greece and the rest of the world.

At the end of the day, all of these mega global organizations that were created post WW2, with the sole design of creating hegemony for power purposes, and to prevent world war, fail spectacularly.

I do not trust the US/EU or any power to step in, and Greece has to operate under the same premise. Mitsotakis has been better than his predecessor, but he too is too timid.

There is a lot of work to be done on the foreign policy front for Greece and we need to evolve from the "we are automatic allies of yours" to "how does this benefit our national goals. Do we want to live the rest of our lives with Turkey being the bully? Do we not want to pose a threat for expansion? I am not advocating for war, nor do I think Greece's aspirations are to secure the megali idea, but why have we curled up into a ball, while Turkey continues its ways?

Do we want to sit back while Cyprus has its land and sea invaded? That's not the kind of Greece I want to see and I think we just need to revamp how we approach the turkish question.

[JVC]

Aek, I used to think a conflict between Greece and Turkey was not likely because of how much is at stake, but Erdogan has built up his provocative actions and rhetoric steadily and his maps show that Erdogan will continue to keep his foot on the gas. Erdogan wants to see Turkey expand its borders and I would think the powers that be wouldn't care much if Turkey decided to take an uninhabited island or two if it means saving the economic dilemmas and geopolitical dilemmas that would arise in stopping turkey.

The "Mavi Vatan" or Blue Homeland doctrine of Erdogan's foreign policy is a real thing and Greeks across the globe have to start realizing that downplaying the possibility of war because both countries are part of NATO is falling into the trap that Turkey has set for Greece and the rest of the world.

At the end of the day, all of these mega global organizations that were created post WW2, with the sole design of creating hegemony for power purposes, and to prevent world war, fail spectacularly.

I do not trust the US/EU or any power to step in, and Greece has to operate under the same premise. Mitsotakis has been better than his predecessor, but he too is too timid.

There is a lot of work to be done on the foreign policy front for Greece and we need to evolve from the "we are automatic allies of yours" to "how does this benefit our national goals. Do we want to live the rest of our lives with Turkey being the bully? Do we not want to pose a threat for expansion? I am not advocating for war, nor do I think Greece's aspirations are to secure the megali idea, but why have we curled up into a ball, while Turkey continues its ways?

Do we want to sit back while Cyprus has its land and sea invaded? That's not the kind of Greece I want to see and I think we just need to revamp how we approach the turkish question.

The trap is going on the attack....Greece can only defend the mainland and Crete. Maybe it can stretch out across and defend Islands near the Turkish border. However if Greece rushes to the aid of Cyprus, stretching out 800 kilometers, while Turkey has a loaded Army there....the war is over before it starts....Turkey will win with ease. If Greece sits back, start attacking strategically go on the offensive in the North, we can hit Turkey hard. The only way Greece has a chance, is to keep Turkey extended and attack where we have the numbers. Basically we can't stop Turkey from invading Islands near Turkey, so its best to think smart on this. Crete is hard for Turkey, and the mainland. So the best strategy is for Greece to attack military sites in Turkey, Airports bridges ect. Use our advanced anti aircraft missiles and do damage to their air force....Subs to sink ships....all this is in the plans trust me....part of our defense.

[Don Giovanni]

You don't need to take it so seriously, I can assure the chances of a war in the next few years is extremely low. In fact, I don't know if we will ever see a proper conflict between developed nations this century. Both Greece and Turkey are NATO members and we are also trade partners.

When it comes to Nazis and Turkey, Turkey was lucky to be one of the nations that the Axis weren't interested in. They remained neutral in WW2 until the very end, when they ''joined'' the Allied Forces for mainly diplomatic reasons.

What I would like Greece to do is make a bold claim for the Aegeum sea and ensure that Turkey, Libya and no one else are ever gonna threaten us.

Filiki said it best. The Turks are looking to agitate and provoke. They're looking for an international incident that will excuse them to take some of the uninhabited islands, at a minimum, and maybe more, which they did already in Cyprus without any serious drawbacks. They're at war in Syria and Libya. And the West doesn't want to alienate Turkey who could easily jump ship from NATO and get in bed with Russia and China.

Beyond that, what they have done in Libya has put them into a position where they can make a better claim for themselves or outright deny our claims in the Mediterranean.

Erdogan is already reeling from his failure to use the migrants as a way to apply pressure on the EU. He has an economy that is going from bad to worse. When Erdogan fails, he doubles down and goes even bolder to turn a loss into a success. So despite our relative success at keeping the migrants at bay, we have to expect he'll create some kind of fresh provocation to reaffirm his politic standing and ambitions. This isn't someone looking to be just a footnote in history.

It would be a mistake for anyone here to think war with Turkey can't happen. The threat needs to be taken seriously and we all need to prepare for that day if it comes.

[Reaper]

Si vis pacem, para bellum is a Latin adage translated as, “If you want peace, prepare for war.”

If you want to be part of a Neo Ottoman nightmare, follow Dora's strategy of appeasement and buzzing enemy fighters over Greek land mass.

[JVC]

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/gr...184126688.html

Here's a start that Greece will be active in the Mediterranean.

[JVC]

Aek, I used to think a conflict between Greece and Turkey was not likely because of how much is at stake, but Erdogan has built up his provocative actions and rhetoric steadily and his maps show that Erdogan will continue to keep his foot on the gas. Erdogan wants to see Turkey expand its borders and I would think the powers that be wouldn't care much if Turkey decided to take an uninhabited island or two if it means saving the economic dilemmas and geopolitical dilemmas that would arise in stopping turkey.

The "Mavi Vatan" or Blue Homeland doctrine of Erdogan's foreign policy is a real thing and Greeks across the globe have to start realizing that downplaying the possibility of war because both countries are part of NATO is falling into the trap that Turkey has set for Greece and the rest of the world.

At the end of the day, all of these mega global organizations that were created post WW2, with the sole design of creating hegemony for power purposes, and to prevent world war, fail spectacularly.

I do not trust the US/EU or any power to step in, and Greece has to operate under the same premise. Mitsotakis has been better than his predecessor, but he too is too timid.

There is a lot of work to be done on the foreign policy front for Greece and we need to evolve from the "we are automatic allies of yours" to "how does this benefit our national goals. Do we want to live the rest of our lives with Turkey being the bully? Do we not want to pose a threat for expansion? I am not advocating for war, nor do I think Greece's aspirations are to secure the megali idea, but why have we curled up into a ball, while Turkey continues its ways?

Do we want to sit back while Cyprus has its land and sea invaded? That's not the kind of Greece I want to see and I think we just need to revamp how we approach the turkish question.

Turkey is at odds with Greece and Cyprus over potentially rich gas reserves in the eastern Mediterranean. Tensions have increased since Turkey signed a memorandum of understanding with the internationally recognised government of Libya on that sees the two countries as maritime neighbours. Greece says the deal ignores territorial waters around several of its islands.

That being said....the gas pipeline projects that involve Greece, Israel and Cyprus will not get done unless Turkey is included....that's a fact. The potential oil fields pertaining to Crete will not become reality unless Turkey is involved, that's also a fact. To add there's huge opposition in Italy and Greece on these projects. So my guess is....Greece will eventually sit down with Turkey and negotiate a deal to get these projects going. IT ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO $$$$.

[Don Giovanni]

You're parroting Turkish propaganda.

Turkey does not need to be included in our pipeline deal. We need to help keep the Turks in check, not be at their mercy like Europe had become to Russia with the Ukrainian gas exports. They have no rights in this dispute. This is the same bullshit they always throw at us.

They're the ones who have to go to Libya to try to force their way onto the table. They're the ones who not-so-secretly operate under the opinion that the treaty of Lausanne is expired and that they hold claims on our islands! Their illegal occupation of Cyprus gives them no rights to this deal no matter how much they bitch about it. The legitimate government of Cyprus makes decisions, not their illegal one. They have no claims here, period.

It's up to us to stand up to the Turks. That may mean going to war! If we don't stand up now, it will invite the Turks to keep up with these antics in the future and whose to say they won't take more? Which islands do you propose we should give up? Rhodes? You want Greece to lose a piece of land like Ukraine did in Crimea? Greece must reaffirm her standing and be prepared to defend her sovereignty and rights. The only reason the Turks keep getting away with this is because we have so far lacked the backbone to make the hard decisions. It didn't help having an economic crisis and Tsipras in office, but we can't gripe about that, we have to make due.

We have to draw the line! We can't hope for the best and think war can't happen. We have to prepare for this. And truth be told, we'll probably need boots on the ground in Libya if we're to protect our interests!

[Filikieteria1821]

Turkey is at odds with Greece and Cyprus over potentially rich gas reserves in the eastern Mediterranean. Tensions have increased since Turkey signed a memorandum of understanding with the internationally recognised government of Libya on that sees the two countries as maritime neighbours. Greece says the deal ignores territorial waters around several of its islands.

That being said....the gas pipeline projects that involve Greece, Israel and Cyprus will not get done unless Turkey is included....that's a fact. The potential oil fields pertaining to Crete will not become reality unless Turkey is involved, that's also a fact. To add there's huge opposition in Italy and Greece on these projects. So my guess is....Greece will eventually sit down with Turkey and negotiate a deal to get these projects going. IT ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO $$$$.

Turkey may want to be involved in everything, but it's Greece's job to not have that happen.

We cannot allow Turkish pressure to influence our foreign policy goals/business dealings because then we will always be at the mercy of the turks and if we cannot overcome this then the future will not be kind to Greece as a country

[JVC]

Turkey may want to be involved in everything, but it's Greece's job to not have that happen.

We cannot allow Turkish pressure to influence our foreign policy goals/business dealings because then we will always be at the mercy of the turks and if we cannot overcome this then the future will not be kind to Greece as a country

The way I see it....Turkey is the regional power, however we hold our own and have world influence in the region. However I can't see the region moving forward without Turkish involvement. Both countries need to gain in order to move forward.

[Reaper]

The way I see it....Turkey is the regional power, however we hold our own and have world influence in the region. However I can't see the region moving forward without Turkish involvement. Both countries need to gain in order to move forward.

Would you accept sharing your garden with your neighbour because he is more powerful than you? This is a very asiatic mindset. Their is no such thing as a Turkish destiny for the Aegean - only in the minds of the Greek left and religious Sunni muslims.

[Filikieteria1821]

The way I see it....Turkey is the regional power, however we hold our own and have world influence in the region. However I can't see the region moving forward without Turkish involvement. Both countries need to gain in order to move forward.

With some countries this mindset could work because it assumes that countries wouldn't be at the throat of the other. With the turks you give them a pinky and they'll take both your arms and then some.

Greece bends at all in its stance and the islands are gone. Turkey knows this and has put Greece in an absolutely impossible situation to have peace in the region.

Greece and Turkey are two countries that will never see eye to eye because one country was a slave to the other for hundreds of years and the master in the situation continues to seek that same role

[AGP]

Look I don't agree with going to war, but I definitely don't think the way forward is involving Turkey in the project.

I'd say if you involve French/US/Israeli companies to explore there is your security guarantee. A Greek oil company doesn't need to be involved, it simply needs to lease out the area for a fee to a friendly company and charge a royalty for every barrel pumped.

[Reaper]

Look I don't agree with going to war, but I definitely don't think the way forward is involving Turkey in the project.

I'd say if you involve French/US/Israeli companies to explore there is your security guarantee. A Greek oil company doesn't need to be involved, it simply needs to lease out the area for a fee to a friendly company and charge a royalty for every barrel pumped.

Israel would not go to war with Turkey over some gas or oil contracts in the Aegean. Neither the French. This tactic would have only had a chance of success had the Greeks started exploring the area for oil and gas and selling contracts a decade ago before Turkey woke up from its slumber and reestablished itself as the Ottoman Empire. However Greece did not do this due to once again - backing down to Turkish threats.

If a neighbour tells you what trees you can plant in your garden, when you are allowed a BBQ - what type of water you have to use in your pool - chlorinated or salt. How many people are allowed in your garden at any one time. What colour clothing you are allowed to wear when walking in your garden - there comes a point where you have to be honest and admit it is not your garden anymore. Turkey's causi belli even includes Corfu claiming at 12 miles EZZ! This has nothing to do with anything but Turkey teaching the world Greece is not a sovereign nation and to be honest - as long as Turkish jets are allowed to fly directly over large populated islands like Chios - Turkey is right - Greece is not a sovereign nation. I recon in 10 years many of these Sunni illegals in Lesbos will have houses and there will even be some mosque construction. That is when Erdogan or his successor will get really hungry..

The only way Greece could use 3rd parties is by declaring a 12 mile EEZ and putting out the security and guarantee of that EEZ to the highest bidder - Russia or the EU. If Russia can guarantee Greek borders over the EU/FRONTEX - the EU is finished as an entity and Putin and the EU know that.