Turkish Defence Minister wants Greece and Armenia to be removed.

[Filikieteria1821]

Greece is unfortunately putting too much stock in the trilateral relationships it has formed with Cyprus/Egypt & Cyprus/Israel. Although great in their own right, neither Egypt or Israel will use military force to help Greece.

Greece has ignored its armed forces for far too long and although somewhat unrelated it struck me as interesting that news broke a day or 2 ago that Turkey was planning on having a small operation to take the 8 turks out of Greece who were part of the "coup" in Turkey. Turkey obviously never went through with it, but let's call it what it is, Turkey doesn't respect Greece, because Greece doesn't respect Greece.

The economic crisis has debilitated the country and the armed forces seem like an after thought. Right now, we're seeing a bit more urgency, but we aren't close to receiving new ships which are badly needed.

Right now, even if we have a quality advantage over the turks, we do not have a quantity advantage. Given Trump's affinity for Erdogan, Greece best look to swiftly get its armed forces in order. Turkey has gone through with it's Syria plan, now I think Cyprus/Greece are next

[Don Giovanni]

Tsipras should not have denounced Trump thinking he wouldn't win. Even Mitsotakis is too much of Bush loyalist. Our leaders have put too much stock in people in Washington who don't value us at all. Pompeo's visit and the signing of that agreement provided us nothing of value.

Turkey gets to play coy with both sides, while we sit quietly on the side of NATO and the US. We should seek neutrality between the West and Russia, which means getting out of NATO, and we should seek to defend our interests against Turkey on our own, independently working with other countries who are smart enough to recognize the problem the Turks pose. I think we should consider leaving the EU once Britain has sealed the deal and look to reinstate our borders and strengthen the military. The next time Turkey sends a boat of migrants to Greece, we shouldn't take them in. We should leave them stranded and turn it into an international incident.

[Filikieteria1821]

Greece won't leave NATO or the EU, because as it stands, Greece is very weak. Every time Greece gets slighted by Turkey, you hear things like "EU borders" or "international law". Countries use institutions and int law for 2 main reasons:

1) They are either weak and rely on international law or larger political institutions to mask their deficiencies,
2) Try to propagandize their positions (Turkey refers to international law, but does this because their foreign policy is built on lies)

Greece's only way forward is to reinvest in the armed forces, and gearing up for the future. The idea that trump is going to stop Turkey is a pipe dream. Trump got out of Erdogan's way because he's buddy buddy with him, has business interests in Turkey and/or sees the Syria pull out as a way to boost votes from the anti-war crowd.

But it's very apparent that Greece cannot rely on the US for protection, and the EU is a comical organization.

I personally fear for the future of Greece and Cyprus.

[Don Giovanni]

I think unless we leave we will not have the independence we need to act in our vital interests. I also think the union will end one way or the other. And I believe we are strong enough to repel a Turkish invasion and Cyprus doesn't have to follow us in this direction. Also leaving NATO doesn't mean we jump ship and join ourselves at the hips with the Russians, it means we can become neutral or coy in the conflict between the West and Russia.

[Reaper]

I think unless we leave we will not have the independence we need to act in our vital interests. I also think the union will end one way or the other. And I believe we are strong enough to repel a Turkish invasion and Cyprus doesn't have to follow us in this direction. Also leaving NATO doesn't mean we jump ship and join ourselves at the hips with the Russians, it means we can become neutral or coy in the conflict between the West and Russia.

This is an interesting idea.

For me the strategy should be first to secure 12 nautical miles from all Greek land with a medium line where land borders Turkey.
To establish that, all diplomatic means need to be used. The EU will help (Austria, France etc) if Greece states what it wants. Greece will make this an issue that if Turkey doesn't comply - all EU negotiations stop dead. Greece will have many supporters. Also this will allow Greece to be seen as the legal, honest one rather than the shady complicity unsafe neighbour who plays silly games with turkey in the Aegean involving multi million dollar jets play fighting.

Only once that is secure and we can legally shoot down Sunni jets within that 12 miles - then we can start building a foreign policy.

You cannot build a foreign policy on disputed land. As the Palestinians used to say, you cant share a pizza when one side is already eating it..

[Don Giovanni]

I think to do that we need to threaten to leave. They won't listen nor care.

[Reaper]

I think to do that we need to threaten to leave. They won't listen nor care.

It can be part of the strategy but we may not need to even suggest it. Again, there is plenty of festering Turkish dislike that Greece has NEVER even used within the EU. We left NATO before and nothing really happened so I don;t think it is the end of the world if Greece leaves - I just think Greece needs to show Europe it is the sensible one. Sadly, I don't think there is enough IQ left in Greece to even walk this path..

[Filikieteria1821]

I read something today that Turkey will keep/activate the s-400 and are currently receiving training on the system.

This is per the news outlet Ahval "Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar" S-400's will operate. Training of the Turkish army personnel continues. When it is completed, we will proceed with our planned operations."

The latter part of this statement is very dangerous as it insinuated that Turkey is currently viewing the s-400 as the missing piece to it's future planned military operations.

The Greek air force is of much better quality than Turkey's and this to me sounds like Turkey will go ahead and use the s-400 to balance out the advantage. We are entering very dangerous times and I really believe that Turkey has designs on Greece/Cyprus in the near future.

This military build up of theirs is not a coincidence. Erdogan isn't the type to acquire military might and not use it. He's going to do something soon