Libya

[Don Giovanni]

https://www.thenational.ae/world/men...flict-1.957480

There has been a flurry of media reports that Turkey will transfer Islamist militants from Syria to fight alongside the Tripoli militias. Bloomberg reported on Friday that Ankara would deploy an ethnic Turkmen rebel group from Syria’s north-east as well as the Turkish navy to defend the Libyan capital while the Turkish military would provide support and training.

https://worldisraelnews.com/netanyah...pipeline-deal/

Netanyahu heading to Greece Thursday to sign game-changing Mediterranean pipeline deal

[Reaper]

Turkey will be sending troops to Libya to secure the Libyan Government that gave away the Sea of Crete.

The Greek parliament will do nothing. The Greek media will talk about others things.

Massive loss for Greece. Completely deserved sadly. A country in managed decline.

It should be noted Italy is financially supporting the Islamist Government in Libya as well.

[Filikieteria1821]

Mitsotakis and the Greek elite believe that diplomacy will somehow reign Turkey in, and I don't know if it's legitimately planned, or not, but they have to be fucken stupid to think Erdogan is going to stop because the international community says so.

Turkey knows one thing, and that is strength.

Aside from fear of economic issues, Mitsotakis should be sending arms, and also a small force to Libya which can combine with Egypt and propel Haftar over Sarraj and then Turkey. This would be the first step to regaining some footing in the region

Turkey cannot afford more foreign interventions, especially if prolonged enough. Greece needs to stop relying on diplomacy as the end all be all solution to its issues with Turkey. It hasn't worked, and likely will never work because Turkish soceity is highly nationalistic and believe Greece is one of its core enemies.

[Don Giovanni]

Everything you said Filo is spot on.

This directly imperils our sovereignty. It's going to take more than diplomacy to deal with this. Unless we commit men on the front lines and draw a line in the sand with the Turks, then Turks will do as they wish.

[Filikieteria1821]

Precisely. The EU is so entrenched in its leaderless nonsense that Turkey will go about its business, untouched. Turkey's economy failing would also imperil some of the EU's largest economies, which is why you won't see anyone come out and say Turkey is a major problem.

This is reminiscent of when Hitler was pretty much telling the French and the Brits to get fucked, and that Germany would begin to expand and grow its armed forces. Turkey is telling the world that they are done being just a country, they want to be a world power, and for them that means expanding borders and stealing resources that do not belong to them.

So is it going to have to come to Turkey stealing land/resources of NATO/EU member states?

Turkey knows that Greece is impeding its plans in the Aegean and east med, but Greece running to all these other countries with Dendias stating that they had good discussions as absolutely pointless and garners absolutely no positive effect. Greece needs to stop operating like a ball-less country. Greece isn't the kurds, Turkey knows a war against Greece wouldn't be a walk in the park, nor are they positive they would win, or else they would have already invaded a few islands.

Turkey only makes moves if they are certain that they will come out victorious. But as the days go by, you can see Turkey is gaining its confidence in taking a dominant position and that includes stealing Greek and Greek Cypriot resources.

Mitsotakis needs to wake up - it's time to tell the EU powers that be that they can get lost, and eventually Greece needs to stand up for Greece and no one else.

[Reaper]

Sadly, since 1922, there seems to be something written into the DNA of Greek leaders that Greece will eventually be Turkic - and that their mission is to slow the process of that inevitability to a snail's pace.

As for diplomacy - Greece thought that would solve Imbros, Tenedos, Cyprus etc. Not only did it not solve any of those - it lead to grey zones and now - the actual Sea of Crete is gone... Greece?/EU not recognising Turkey's right to drill off Crete means zero.

This can all be traced back to Greece's soft left pro Neo Ottoman approach. Every now again - one of our so called conservatives lets slip what they really think. I remember when Dora Bakoyiannis said Islam is a beautiful religion - but especially for women. This was key. Her writing in the papers last month saying unless we concede to Turkey it will be war is from the same playbook. The Turks could not have installed a more loyal Government in Athens if they tried. Even Turkish Cyprus is less loyal to Turkey's ambitions than Athens.

All that money spent on the Greek army. All that experience. All for nothing. The Turks know we will never use the army - for anything (besides perhaps the evacuation of civilians of a recently invaded Greek island).

The Greek media is also playing its part. Very quiet lately on Libya - but tonnes of articles on the plight of anarchists in Athens, snow and obesity.

[Filikieteria1821]

From Twitter (Babak Taghvaee: Naval forces of Egypt & Greece will hold joint military exercise close to Libya's territorial waters. As a result, airspace and international waters, which are important for turkey in its effort to send troops to Libya, will be blocked)

Exercises aren't enough. Egypt is backing Haftar, Greece needs to formally call a meeting with Egypt & Haftar, and declare that there will be a combination of Greek/Egyptian/Haftar forces fighting versus Sarraj & Turkey.

Time to have a proxy war and regain some confidence and footing in the region

[Reaper]

Yes, you have spelled out the obvious card to play, but Greece wont play that card because that card slows down Ottoman expansion and protects the Sea of Crete from the Ottomans. Greece wants to give away the Sea of Crete to Turkey and increase the rise of the Neo Ottoman Empire. For this same reason Greece, wont offer Thrace to house the US nukes - this move will weaken Turkey so Greece will not do it. Same with extending Greece's territorial waters to 12 miles. Greece will not do it as it will weaken the growing Ottoman Empire. Greece wont even extend Kerkyra's territorial waters to 12 miles!

Every single action Greece has made or not made since 1922 has been to make a Neo Ottoman Empire more likely.

Greece will not send troops to Libya - even in a logistical role as this will weaken Turkey. Greece will not form a strategy with Egypt even though Egypt is begging for Greece to help in any way possible. Greece wont even help Haftar/Egypt secretly.

What Greece will do is complain and bitch - and that will make the bully stronger and more powerful - which deep down - is Greece's strategy.

Greek leaders see a Neo Ottoman Empire as inevitable and want to help the process along - one day when Turkey controls Greece - the Turks will still need Greek diplomats and pashas - the current Greek leaders and their descendants will be happy to take that role that gives the same money but less responsibility. The EU or a New Ottoman Empire or both? - from Tsipras to Mitsotakis - all Greek leaders are passive globalists, they don't care which controls Greece. The Sea of Crete was sold out by Greek politicians this month. Imagine how disposable those islands nearest Turkey are..

Many Greeks with money will feel shielded and safe under a New Ottoman Empire. Many Greeks didn't want the Greek revolution in the first place - Kolokotronis' Diaries states as much as do historians. These same types of people are still in positions of power. They hope for a smooth transition back to Ottomanism - so they have to pretend they are against Turkish expansion to get elected - but in the least harmful way to Ottoman expansion as possible. The answer? 100 years of a strategy of bitching. The Greek military is just a charade. Its true use is to rescue Greek or Turkish pilots whose jets have crashed in the Aegean, help in earthquakes and make the majority of Greeks think Greece is a real country.

Turkey knows all of this. That is why Turkey is amused by Greece. Greece will never block Turkey's EU accession. Greece will never stop Turkey taking more land and sea from Greece - but Greece will bitch and Turkey understands this. It is like a guy walking with his wife and see the girl of his dreams across the street. His wife catches him staring and he says 'man that woman is ugly.. she reminds me of a piglet and her dress sense.. yuck..' The woman across the street (Turkey) knows the guy fancies her, the guy does fancy her (Greek leaders) - the wife is appalled (Greek electorate).

[Don Giovanni]

Μητσοτάκης: Δεν θα επιτρέψουμε τουρκική δραστηριότητα που παραβιάζει τα δικαιώματά μας

https://www.kathimerini.gr/1058630/a...dikaiwmata-mas

The original interview he gave with the Globe and Mail is detailed in this article, but I can't post it because it's behind a paywall.

Κληθείς να σχολιάσει τη στάση της Τουρκίας, ιδιαίτερα στο ζήτημα της Λιβύης, τονίζει: «Δεν θα επιτρέψουμε καμία τουρκική δραστηριότητα που να παραβιάζει τα κυριαρχικά δικαιώματα της Ελλάδας». Αναφερόμενος γενικότερα στα ελληνοτουρκικά σημειώνει: «Είμαστε έτοιμοι να συζητήσουμε με όλους τους γείτονές μας, συμπεριλαμβανομένης ασφαλώς της Τουρκίας. Και αν δεν μπορεί να επιτευχθεί συμφωνία, τότε είμαστε ανοιχτοί (στο ενδεχόμενο να προσφύγουμε) σε διεθνή δικαιοδοσία. Αλλά, οι κόκκινες γραμμές δεν μπορούν να παραβιαστούν από κανέναν».

It doesn't appear he provided any details on what constitutes those red lines. He needs to address this matter with greater conviction and clarity. Right now the message to Turkey is they can go ahead with their plans while we twiddles our thumbs.

[Don Giovanni]

Here are some more details on Mitsotakis US visit tomorrow. The article also rehashes bits from the article of his interview with the Globe and Mail.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/248120/a...-after-us-trip

Head of Libya parliament says Turkey-Libyan deal invalid

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN1YG26Z

Whatever shaky legal ground the Turks thought they had leaves their deal with the GNA in an even more tenuous situation.

A lot of other factors have developed in such manner where I find it difficult to believe the Turks really will commit actual citizens on the ground in Libya. Erdogan is certainly bitting off more than he can chew involving Turkey in Libya's civil war.

At this point I would like for our leaders to speak more forcefully about our intentions. We will need to counter the Turks in lockstep and make that point clearly. If they want to raise the stakes, we need to be prepared to call them on it. We've been too meek so far in responses, not least of all in countering their exploration and drilling operations.

[Filikieteria1821]

Per Marco Florian on Twitter

"Unbelievable advance for LNA forces in one sole day:

- Conquered Sirte
- Conquered Ghardabiya airbase
- Reached Washqa area, border between Sirte & Misrata Districts

Next target? Misrata itself most probably"

So looks like Haftar is making advances, but I truly believe that Turkey will throw as much as possible into this conflict because Erdogan knows that Libya is a major key to what he's trying to do in the Aegean/Mediterranean.

Turkey doesn't take Greece seriously because Greece doesn't act like a serious country. Greece figured by acting like the nice kid on the block the Europeans and NATO would protect it, and that has done nothing. There is still time to become a serious country, but Greece seems hell bent on using whatever foreign policy assets it has, on diplomacy.

Turkey doesn't take those kinds of things seriously. Don Giovanni we will need to match Turkey step for step, and we will need to start escalating this issue into a proxy war. It's the only way for Greece to stop Turkey's plans. Sarraj losing to Haftar will not work fully.

[Don Giovanni]

Erdogan: Turkish soldiers gradually being deployed to Libya

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...062845414.html

"There will be an operation centre [in Libya], there will be a Turkish lieutenant general leading and they will be managing the situation over there. [Turkish soldiers] are gradually moving there right now," Erdogan told private broadcaster CNN Turk during an interview.

He said Turkey would not be deploying its own combat forces. "Right now, we will have different units serving as a combatant force," he said, without giving details on who and how many the fighters would be, as well as where they would come from.

The president said Turkey's objective was "not to fight", but "to support the legitimate government and avoid a humanitarian tragedy".

He said: "Our soldiers' duty there is coordination. They will develop the operation centre there. Our soldiers are gradually going right now."

(emphasis mine)

[Don Giovanni]

Putin visits Turkey on Wednesday. Turkey's involvement in Libya will likely be defined by the outcome of this meeting.

https://www.axios.com/turkey-troops-...b472afb8c.html

Soner Cagaptay, author of “Erdoğan’s Empire” and director of the Washington Institute's Turkish Research Program, says it will be difficult for Turkey to sustain a military presence in Libya without a green light from Vladimir Putin. Thus, a summit next week between Erdoğan and the Russian president will be crucial.

What to watch: Erdoğan showed in Syria that he's unwilling to risk direct confrontation with Russia and won't do so in Libya either, Cagaptay says.

Russia recently made some headway with Europe, much to America's annoyance. NATO has also been losing it's purpose. Good riddance. It will be interesting to see what Russia chooses to do, but I'm not optimistic, I expect Russia to make a deal with Turkey to our disadvantage.

[Reaper]

Ottoman GNA just lost half their territority in 24 hours!! Haftar took Sirte and another 1000 square miles beyond that!!


https://libya.liveuamap.com

[Filikieteria1821]

Mitsotakis & Trump met yesterday and 95% of the meeting, at least the one in front of the press, centered around Iran. The only somewhat decent thing was Mitsotakis made sure the media was aware of the Libya problem and how Greece will defend itself in the face of Turkish aggression in Greek territorial waters.

But, meeting was essentially fruitless, and at one point, Trump referenced talking to a host of countries about Libya, but with Mitsotakis sitting right there made no mention of talking to Greece.

This is what happens when you've been away from the international scene for far too long, and have a megalomaniac who happens to be in the US presidents back pocket.

Whether it is, or isn't economically feasible, Greece should have injected itself into the Libyan crisis, on the side of Haftar, because it has become clear that Greece has fallen out of favor in international circles, and when you're passive for far too long, people forget you exist. Greece has acted like a ball-less nation for awhile, but being right next to the president of the US, telling him you'll give American war companies millions/billions for f16 viper/f35, and to be ignored when Libya's issues very much affect Greece, is disheartening, and downright embarrassing.

And earlier today Erdogan and his buddy boy Putin want to bring a ceasfire to the table for Libya. Why on earth would Haftar sit at the negotiation table with Sarraj? Haftar has the majority of Libyan territory and has Sarraj on the ropes. In my opinion, this wreaks of Erdogan trying to save face and also trying to ensure that Sarraj stays in power in some sense just to ensure that the agreement he signed with Sarraj stays in effect.

Again, it is high time for Greece to directly infuse itself in the Libyan crisis. Put a small task force together, and get some military arms going to Haftar and that is enough to have a seat at the table. Germany be damned, Greece needs to start caring about Greece. The EU can get fucked at this point