Libya

[Reaper]

Excellent post. ^^

Some points.

1/ There has been a Greek presence in Benghazi from 600BC when it was colonized by Greeks to today. Cretan surnames are not an unusual thing in Benghazi - Greeks often going there for work. Greeks should put a task force there immediately. Let professional Greek soldiers at least experience what it is like setting foot in North Africa. The experience will be hugely valuable.

2/ This conflict genuinely effects Greece. Cretan sea meets Libya. It is absurd we are not involved.

3/ Concerning Greece falling out of the game. This has been done on purpose and as I type this Dora Bakoyiannis is having articles published stating that if we do get involved - at any level other than capitulation/ diplomatic words - it will be war and Greeks will die. This straw man is still obeyed by Mitsotakis her brother - who is purposely not getting Greece involved and removing us from the game and thus - we will lose territory in the med whoever wins in Libya.

4/ Our leaders are happy for Greece to lose territory because it does not effect their wealth. Whether the EU (Germany) rules Greece or the Ottomans, they don't care. These Greek leaders miss the time when they were conduits between the Sultan's policies in Istanbul and local Greek tribes within the Ottoman Empire. Paid to do essentially nothing. Glorified tax collectors.

[Filikieteria1821]

I was just listening to an interview in Greece where the Chinese had told Greek representatives that they were meeting "we were told not to discuss Greece with Greek officials, but to discuss Greece with German officials". We are not a real country anymore, because Germany feels that since it is top dog in the EU and owns a bunch of Greek debt, that they own us. They can get fucked.

On a side note, it's pretty apparent that Angela Merkel is scared shitless of losing power - evidenced by her inactivity, and by Macron's emergence as trying to spring French foreign involvement.

I believe France genuinely wants Greece to succeed, I can't say the same for Germany.

Dora is a clown. The very reason we are in the position that we're in, is because we've been inactive. Greece's best foreign policy is to always be prepared for war and to always get involved in regional issues. Because of Dora and her affiliates, Greece will find itself in a war.

[Reaper]

I was just listening to an interview in Greece where the Chinese had told Greek representatives that they were meeting "we were told not to discuss Greece with Greek officials, but to discuss Greece with German officials".

This is it. I only realised it last year. Greek leaders do not want the responsibility of Greece. They never wanted that. They want a master. Of course the Greek people don't really share these views so in order to get elected, the Greek leaders have to occasionally write an angry letter complaining to the EU about something a bully did to Greece. It seems the Greek electorate buy that play every time.. However anything that will actually hurt Turkey - like blocking their EU membership unless Turkey accepts a 12 mile Greek sea border and acknowledging the Greek island's right to exist.. the Greek leaders will never do. They will never do this because they want a strong Turkey. Occasionally Greek politicians actually admit to this and say the words, 'we want an economically strong and stable Turkey to be our partner bla bla bla.' Greece has had 100s of foreign diplomats over the years asking for help or asking to join a coordinated move against Turkish expansion. Most recently Egypt tried.. Each time Greece has shown pure loyalty to Turkey and ignored or wasted the time of those seeking to weaken Turkey and strengthen Greece. We abandoned Armenia, Syria and Lebanon. We have done precious little with a friendly government in Egypt. We have done NOTHING with the Austrians who don't want Turkey near the EU and are constantly searching for other nations to form an anti Turkish alliance. Everything Greek leaders do is to make Turkey stronger and Greece weaker. The Greek leaders are in effect - an Ottoman landing party - terraforming the country for Turkification. Turkish TV, Turkish news, new mosques and muslim schools, muslim illegal immigrants free to use Greece as their dustbin, making sure the Pomaks in Thrace are 100% Turkish and never assimilated. This is all part of the plan.

On a side note, it's pretty apparent that Angela Merkel is scared shitless of losing power - evidenced by her inactivity, and by Macron's emergence as trying to spring French foreign involvement.

I think her inactivity is more to do with supporting the Ottoman expansion but hiding behind the blackmail of refugees from Turkey.. The Germans are building factories in Turkey as fast as they can.

Macron wants influence in Libya. Who would ever let a Frenchman step foot in North Africa again? A secularist like Haftar would so as a result, Macron has been very quietly helping Haftar I believe. France is petrified of Germany.

Because of Dora and her affiliates, Greece will find itself in a war.

Correct. And what is more, due to her influence, when the war does happen, we will almost certainly lose. This again will suit her agenda. She will be the first employed to negotiate terms with a victorious Turkey you can guarantee it. She will probably even be given a massive office in Istanbul and on Turkish TV non-stop. Her power will grow. Meanwhile her spineless brother will be getting bummed in Cihangir district of Istanbul in peace in between doing her intimate laundry for her.

[Filikieteria1821]

So Merkel is going to host Erdogan on a visit, and the very next day is having a summit in order to resolve the Libya issue.

Except Greece wasn't invited...

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-calls-...lin/a-51999875

A German-led push for resolving the conflict in Libya should see Libyan warlord Khalifa Haftar and the leader of the UN-backed government, Fayez al-Sarraj, attend a conference in Berlin this Sunday, the German government said on Tuesday.

They are to be joined by envoys from the US, Russia, China, the UK, France, Italy, the EU and the UN. German Chancellor Angela Merkel also extended an invitation to the African Union, the Arab League, as well the Republic of Congo, Algeria, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, and Turkey.

"With the aim of supporting the work of UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres and the UN Special Envoy Ghassan Salame towards a sovereign Libya and for a reconciliation process, the Chancellor Merkel is calling for a Libya conference in Berlin on Sunday," German government spokesman Steffen Seibert said on Twitter.

This is a smack to the face of Greece as Merkel acts like Turkish aggression doesn't directly impact Greek territorial waters and sovereignty, but this is no surprise. To Merklel, Greece is vassal state that owe's too much money to Germany and has ceded control.

This is what happens when you're missing from the international stage for far too long and are scared to use your armed forces to prove a point. Mitsotakis should be inviting Haftar to Greece and should be signing an agreement that allows a small contingent of Greek military personnel to station in Libya, train LNA forces, etc. If the big dogs don't want to take notice of you, you have to force them.

Greece needs to force its way on to the scene now because they've been sleeping for years and act like the economy is going to blow up if they act in any "provocative" way

[Reaper]

Germany and Turkey are united on all issues. Have been for most of last century.

Greece is not a player.

Russia, Egypt, Libya and others have invited Greece to be a player. Greece has refused - flatly refused. Therefore you cannot blame, imo, Trump, Merkel, UN, NATO for ignoring a non player.

It is not enough for Mitsotakis to say 'Greece wants to be involved.' That is Dora speak for 'please give us something for nothing..' That is not real politik.

[Filikieteria1821]

Kongo was invited, but not Greece, that to me is blatant disrespect because really wtf does Kongo have to do with Libya?

But yes, Greece was essentially invited and has passed the buck yet again because fear and apathy has warped the minds of all Greek leaders.

and of course now Greece has begged germany to have a seat at the table

http://www.ekathimerini.com/248405/a...s-libya-summit

Greece has asked to attend a summit in Berlin which will discuss a path to peace in Libya, government spokesman Stelios Petsas revealed on Tuesday.

The news came a regular press briefing, when Petsas was asked about Greece’s “absence” from any diplomatic initiatives concerning the crisis in Libya.

“Nobody can say that Greece is absent, but instead it is at the center of developments. We want to be involved in any initiative in the search for a political solution,” he told journalists and announced the request.

Reuters reported that the summit will coincide with a one-day visit to Berlin by Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan and will be held on January 19.

The same report said that “Erdogan’s presence is seen as essential to the success of any conference on Libya, since Ankara’s decision to deploy military advisers and possibly troops there has made it a major player in the country’s long-running civil war.”

The summit was announced by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Saturday, who said that the United Nations would lead talks if a meeting were to take place in Berlin.

[Reaper]

This guy has clearly been reading the forums:

https://www.tovima.gr/2020/01/14/opi...ai-prooptikis/

[Filikieteria1821]

Downright embarassing and really other EU members have to wonder, when an enemy is at their door step, are they going to be ignored too?

Greece sitting on its ass doing nothing and news came out today that Greece is going to station a Patriot Defense System in Saudi Arabia, can I ask why same wasn't done for Haftar? Turkey is sending troops to Libya, if Greece doesn't do the same in Libya, I'm afraid we will never recover.

[Don Giovanni]

Reports on Turkey's provocations are beginning to hit the news cycle. Egypt raided a Turkish new agency. Who is Erdogan to condemn it given that he has outright jailed journalists in his country? There are reports that Egypt may intervene in Libya to counter Turkey. Good.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/202..._138683088.htm

I wish our country would be as affirmative in sending that message. It's something Mitsotakis has to come to grips. If he can't do the job, then he needs to step aside and allow someone else to take command.

Jordan's King Abdullah reckons that ISIS has reemerged in Libya. That wouldn't have anything to do with Turkey sending in jihadist to do their fighting would it?

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...-on-rise-again

[Filikieteria1821]

Jordan's King slammed Erdogan saying that the reason Jordan doesn't get as much aid from the EU is because it doesn't threaten the EU with flooding it with migrants. He said that he believes it is Jordan's job to deal with the crisis.

King Abdullah II of Jordan criticised Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's threats to open the gates for migrants to get more financial assistance for refugees residing in Turkey.

“Because we do not threaten Europe by pushing refugees towards Europe. Because we think that is a responsibility that should be taken care of by us in the area,” Jordanian King said during an interview with France24 on Monday.

https://ahvalnews.com/refugee-crisis...efugees-europe


Seems like no one in the region likes Erdogan, and yet no one wants to lift a finger. Egypt may be the only one who is brought to do it because Egypt knows it's strong and can go toe to toe with Turkey. Mitsotakis and the rest of the clowns running the show are stuck in these malaise of Greece being a run down country, who's economy is on the brink of collapse.

But at the end of the day, Turkey is threatening to take over our territorial waters and islands, we cannot rely on diplomacy to save us. Diplomacy doesn't work with the Turks, military might does

[Filikieteria1821]

https://hellasjournal.com/2020/01/st...ata-sti-livii/

Erdogan is going to send one of his drill ships to begin research near Kastelorizo citing the illegal agreement made with Sarraj.

If Greece doesn't respond militarily, then we mite as well just fold the entire country and become a fucken vassal state.

So sick and tired of this shit

[Don Giovanni]

The problem is Mitsotakis. If he's can't stomach it, he needs to resign. And those clowns in Syriza need to quit the partisan BS. That loser Tsipras is part of the reason why we are in this position. Greece needs a tough prime minister and unity right now.

[Soprano76]

Mitsotakis is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he pushes Turkey too far, is Greece's military strong enough to prevent an occupation of Thrace and the Aegean islands llike Rhodes and Lesvos? I really dont know.

The Turks are way out of fucking line though and I would love nothing more for them to be put in place.

[Reaper]

Sadly Greece is in a position that if it is not proactive - it will concede more territory. Greece's foreign policy of managed decline - championed by Dora Bakogiannis every day in the press is a guarantee that Turkey will take more from Greece. Her famous straw man that has lasted since the 70s of - if we do anything - it will be war - still works on lower IQed Greeks. Greece simply is not a real country. It has no strategy. None. Politicians admit this. Turkey therefore has every right to start chipping away at Greek territory. A country that has no desire to defend itself - has little right to exist - especially in the Eastern Med.

Germany sees Libya as a massive opportunity to finally get hold of the Mediterranean with Turkey - something 2 World Wars helped stop but now it has presented itself again. Italy will hang on the coat tales of Germany as usual. Greece will do nothing as the sea of Crete is drilled for oil by the Turks. Greece will do nothing when Kastelorizo is drilled. (I say nothing, Dora and her brother will complain, but in real terms, that is nothing).

Haftar and Egypt begged Greece to get involved on any level - but instead we chose to nothing as Germany/Turkey wants. We could have created more trade with Libya, given our troops a taste of foreign soil - even put a base there to secure the future of Crete from the Ottomans. Greece did nothing because its leaders are happy for Greece to dissolve between Turkey or the EU or both. They will still have jobs. Remember in the Greek revolution. It was the peasants who rebelled against the Ottomans. The Greek local officials told the Greeks to lay down their weapons and talk with the Ottomans..

On a plus, France is also pathetic. Macron making a little scared comment that he is not happy with turkey deploying troops in Libya. Translation: 'We are not happy because to will have the Ottomans on our doorstep threatening us like they do the EU - but we will not openly back Haftar.'

[Filikieteria1821]

Just saw on twitter - from a user with the tag "AnAtheniantoLDN"

it was in greek so I can't copy and paste but will translate - "Breaking - Haftar will be arriving in Athens shortly"