FYROM

[itcoco]

https://www.tovima.gr/2019/01/24/int...f-the-country/

Looks like Marinakis has weighed in on the issue. He's obviously agains the Prespa accord... and good for him for speaking out on this matter.

“Hence, right here from Piraeus we must send a resounding message that we cannot watch our country sinking because of certain people who have sold off Greece for the next 100 years. These people have long ago lost the social majority and yet they bind our children and grandchildren on a road with no return. This fact should make us think and mobilise.”

“It is good for us to constantly remind people that local government should stay away from party politics, but unfortunately today the problem we face is clearly political. We must comprehend the full dimensions of all that has transpired in the last four-and-a-half years otherwise we shall be worthy of our fate. We cannot ask ourselves every time the government’s actions are criticised why that is happening. We must realise that we are accountable to ourselves, because we gave them the mandate to do this. What impresses me particularly is that people do not have the courage to resist because they have lost hope, and that is very sad.”

[Reaper]

Marinakis is correct. It is mind blowing how 70% of Greece is called 'fascist fanatics' by Tsipras and no one says anything.. Greeks are a bizarre people who are content watching their nation destroyed from within.

[Filikieteria1821]

The agreement has passed with 153 members of parliament. My assumption is they are going to rush to get the slavs up north into NATO as Mitsotakis has already stated that he may look to keep them out of the european union.

This is a dark day in history, perhaps darker days will come in time, but an agreement is never final and down the line this issue will fester.

The question is what comes out of it?

Syriza politically is dead. ND has a huge lead.

But, does Greece ever put forth a true conservative that is a nationalist?

If so, this agreement will come at the forefront of greek politics again and there will have to be some movement. This whole deal has been marred with outside influence and shady dealings.

[Reaper]

Well, the Greeks got what they want when they voted in Trotskyists. Macedonia will now forever be associated with some Bulgarians.

Huge give away of sovereign identity by the Greek communists. Kommenos was key in making this happen - as were other 'conservatives' who are in reality - leftists and hate the idea of 'Greece.'

Now we will see cultural territory and actual territory being altered.

The next step for the Skopians:

Enter every international organisation - Olympics, NATO, EU, FIFA etc as 'Macedonians' as their passports will state.

When they join the EU they will freely be able to relocate to what they call 'Aegean Macedonia' and settle those areas en masse. Wages are 3 times higher in Greece than Skopia. They will trickle in at first, but then come in in droves.

When settled in Greece, the Greek communists will help them open up 'Macedonian' schools where slav is the main language. They will form political parties within Greece and slavic cultural centres with the help of Greek academics and Greek communists. They will also start to create bilingual zones with the help of Greek communists.

In affect - we are looking at an alternate reality where the Greek communists managed to win Northern Greece with he help of the slavs in the Civil War. We are now seeing the results of that played out from now.

The Skopians will now start the real terraforming - cultural and literal. Greek communists and Turks will help the process. Lots of money will be poured into this new history and new future as it will directly weaken Greece and the idea of Greece.

The only bright spot? Those Northern Greeks which formed the backbone of Syriza and refused to vote in conservatives are the ones whose history will be most erased. The identity of their children and children's children will be the the most fractured and irrelevant.

The damage to genuine Greeks of this agreement will be felt for 100s of years. The area of Northern Greece now has a direct challenge to its very sovereignty. I never thought I would see another Cyprus like event, but the Greeks voted for oblivion when they voted for Chipra. Other Greek regions now need to start separating themselves from Trotskyist Athens for their own survival.

[Reaper]

https://www.tovima.gr/2019/01/24/int...f-the-country/

Looks like Marinakis has weighed in on the issue. He's obviously agains the Prespa accord... and good for him for speaking out on this matter.

“Hence, right here from Piraeus we must send a resounding message that we cannot watch our country sinking because of certain people who have sold off Greece for the next 100 years. These people have long ago lost the social majority and yet they bind our children and grandchildren on a road with no return. This fact should make us think and mobilise.”

“It is good for us to constantly remind people that local government should stay away from party politics, but unfortunately today the problem we face is clearly political. We must comprehend the full dimensions of all that has transpired in the last four-and-a-half years otherwise we shall be worthy of our fate. We cannot ask ourselves every time the government’s actions are criticised why that is happening. We must realise that we are accountable to ourselves, because we gave them the mandate to do this. What impresses me particularly is that people do not have the courage to resist because they have lost hope, and that is very sad.”

The pain this has caused me and others Hellenes Itcoco... we are still in shock.

[itcoco]

Honestly... this was shocking on so many levels. How can the Government once again go against the majority of its own citizens? The Idea of government representing the people is long gone... if ever existed. It truly is mind boggling.

[RED SHERIFF]

Well, the Greeks got what they want when they voted in Trotskyists. Macedonia will now forever be associated with some Bulgarians.

Huge give away of sovereign identity by the Greek communists. Kommenos was key in making this happen - as were other 'conservatives' who are in reality - leftists and hate the idea of 'Greece.'

Now we will see cultural territory and actual territory being altered.

The next step for the Skopians:

Enter every international organisation - Olympics, NATO, EU, FIFA etc as 'Macedonians' as their passports will state.

When they join the EU they will freely be able to relocate to what they call 'Aegean Macedonia' and settle those areas en masse. Wages are 3 times higher in Greece than Skopia. They will trickle in at first, but then come in in droves.

When settled in Greece, the Greek communists will help them open up 'Macedonian' schools where slav is the main language. They will form political parties within Greece and slavic cultural centres with the help of Greek academics and Greek communists. They will also start to create bilingual zones with the help of Greek communists.

In affect - we are looking at an alternate reality where the Greek communists managed to win Northern Greece with he help of the slavs in the Civil War. We are now seeing the results of that played out from now.

The Skopians will now start the real terraforming - cultural and literal. Greek communists and Turks will help the process. Lots of money will be poured into this new history and new future as it will directly weaken Greece and the idea of Greece.

The only bright spot? Those Northern Greeks which formed the backbone of Syriza and refused to vote in conservatives are the ones whose history will be most erased. The identity of their children and children's children will be the the most fractured and irrelevant.

The damage to genuine Greeks of this agreement will be felt for 100s of years. The area of Northern Greece now has a direct challenge to its very sovereignty. I never thought I would see another Cyprus like event, but the Greeks voted for oblivion when they voted for Chipra. Other Greek regions now need to start separating themselves from Trotskyist Athens for their own survival.

I don't think it will be as dramatic as this.....
there's only 1.1 million BulgarianSlavopseudomacedonians in fyrom....
the idea that enough of them will leave fyrom to settle in Greece for 'good' reasons or 'bad' reasons is extreme....
I sincerely believe our northern borders are safe...

The greece-fyrom dispute needed to be resolved one day...for obvious reasons..
with neither side willing to ever budge..it was always going to take massive concessions from one side to make it happen..
Chipra the Marxist was the easy target to try and convince to make the big concessions...
International pressures on either side didn't really seem to be getting anywhere for 30 years...
Chipra was true to his brothers of 1947....
the greek left....is so steeped in ideological battles and trying to get 'history right' (or left)...that very little matters..

[ThrylosG7]

I dont know why anyone expects anything good from Greek politicians across the board...they are all part of the system..and all play political games...Kammenos could have brought down the govt at any time..so could ND..by the whole party resigning..they would have won the elections anyway... now Pavlopoulos the President is the last person who can save this...

Funny also the rhetoric from the international press....completely ignoring how unpopular this is ...but then again...most people would assume that you wouldnt vote a party in for a second term if they didnt do the will of the people..aye ??

[Filikieteria1821]

Most people consider the FYROM issue trivial. A look on Reddit Europe shows that most europeans laugh at this matter and say it is the most nonsensical disagreement. Those people cleary don't understand the importance of the Macedonian ethnicity, what it means for being greek and the historical/territorial implications.

This issue will never be solved IMO, prepres agreement or not, neither entity will buy into it as one has falsified history to fit their identity theft, while the other is run by a commie maniac looking to redeem his forefathers lost in the greek civil war.

The Turks use the treaty of lauseanne to say they need to look after their brethren in thrace, and these slavs will make the same argument when enough of them move to thessaloniki and settle. I'm not saying we are going to see serious attempts of land annexation, but these people's entire mind set has been built upon the falsification of the historical truth. Additionally, the government has used the school system to push irridentist maps to portray Greece as an aggressor and also as a land stealer.

They believe that Greece occupies a portion of land that belongs to them. How does this kind of mind set change? And how can a "democratic" leader not put this question to a referendum for the public to voice its opinion.

The EU is a sham that pushes anti-democratic outcomes, and just like Greece was forced to swallow the pill of further austerity despite voting no, Greeks were now ignored and flat out called fascists and uneducated for their beliefs.

Sickening stuff from a country who birthed democracy. We not only created it, but we killed it as well.

[RED SHERIFF]

and I think your first point was half of our problem.....,most people genuinely see this dispute as trivial and ridiculous...
there is no malice or disrespect in their feelings....it's just the way it reads to the uninformed

[Reaper]

I don't think it will be as dramatic as this.....
there's only 1.1 million BulgarianSlavopseudomacedonians in fyrom....
the idea that enough of them will leave fyrom to settle in Greece for 'good' reasons or 'bad' reasons is extreme....
I sincerely believe our northern borders are safe...

If they join the EU, the whole nation, Slavo Bulgars and Albanians alike in that new nation can relocate to Greece legally. That is why the UK voted Brexit, free movement is a ridiculous rule. If I were them, I would move to Greece the minute I was able to. There may be only 1.1 mil, but there are many more abroad and many of them have joint citizenship which will allow them to buy cheap houses in northern greece and live there.

We must remember that these Skopians are extreme and extreme peoples do extreme things. However moving to Greece will not be extreme - it will just compliment the millions of Romanians and Bulgars who have already relocated to the UK, Spain and Italy under EU free movement rules.

To put this into perspective, Lithuania and other similar nations are becoming abandoned as all the workers have moved to other EU nations with more work. I predict Skopia will empty the minute they join the EU.

[Filikieteria1821]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_6LpI4iHwo

Good reactions and follow up to the prespa agreement

[ThrylosG7]

Very good thanks for posting

[RED SHERIFF]

If they join the EU, the whole nation, Slavo Bulgars and Albanians alike in that new nation can relocate to Greece legally. That is why the UK voted Brexit, free movement is a ridiculous rule. If I were them, I would move to Greece the minute I was able to. There may be only 1.1 mil, but there are many more abroad and many of them have joint citizenship which will allow them to buy cheap houses in northern greece and live there.

We must remember that these Skopians are extreme and extreme peoples do extreme things. However moving to Greece will not be extreme - it will just compliment the millions of Romanians and Bulgars who have already relocated to the UK, Spain and Italy under EU free movement rules.

To put this into perspective, Lithuania and other similar nations are becoming are abandoned as all the workers have moved to other EU nations with more work. I predict Skopia will empty the minute they join the EU.

there are elements in the diaspora that are extreme.....but most are keyboard warriors....
yes...a lot of them will want to jump ship and go to EU.....However Greece offers very little in way of employment....
As crazy as they are..people look after their own needs first...job, money, security for their kids....that is the biggest driver...
any mass exodus will follow paths other eastern euros have....
Greece will see a trickle...

[ThrylosG7]

I agree in principle with what you say ...however let me play devils advocate for a minute ...in 10 - 15 - 20 years time ..a few thousand can easily become 10s of thousands if not more ...who is to say they dont employ the Albanian tactics which is take over by stealth and numbers..it all starts with getting recognition as an official minority with certain autonomous rights etc..I dont think that Thessaloniki will become capital of " North Macedonia " however it is feasible thet they may end up with certain minority privileges ...much like the Albanians in Skopsville. As for migrating..Greece has the Euro..they have their currency which is like the Balkan peso......I'll give you an example that you will understand...many many sub continent people live in some seedy conditions here in Australia ..Pakistanis, Bangladeshis Indians Sri Lankans etc...Ive seen them 2 or 3 different families in one large 5 bedroom home...we see it and think how the fuck do they live like this...however ..compared to where they came from its great ..its still an upgrade..an upgrade thats significant enough fo them to stay...Greeks are happy to dig their own graves by providing work..and using them as cheap labour..basically making it easy for them to stay...think about the Albanian influx of the 80s and 90s ...you think they have assimilated ?? If the skops come in numbers they will be worse than the Albanians...

[Reaper]

[RED SHERIFF]

1 comment

• 
  #87.1
  
  ThrylosG7 commented
  Yesterday, 02:31 PM
  
  
  I agree in principle with what you say ...however let me play devils advocate for a minute ...in 10 - 15 - 20 years time ..a few thousand can easily become 10s of thousands if not more ...who is to say they dont employ the Albanian tactics which is take over by stealth and numbers..it all starts with getting recognition as an official minority with certain autonomous rights etc..I dont think that Thessaloniki will become capital of " North Macedonia " however it is feasible thet they may end up with certain minority privileges ...much like the Albanians in Skopsville. As for migrating..Greece has the Euro..they have their currency which is like the Balkan peso......I'll give you an example that you will understand...many many sub continent people live in some seedy conditions here in Australia ..Pakistanis, Bangladeshis Indians Sri Lankans etc...Ive seen them 2 or 3 different families in one large 5 bedroom home...we see it and think how the fuck do they live like this...however ..compared to where they came from its great ..its still an upgrade..an upgrade thats significant enough fo them to stay...Greeks are happy to dig their own graves by providing work..and using them as cheap labour..basically making it easy for them to stay...think about the Albanian influx of the 80s and 90s ...you think they have assimilated ?? If the skops come in numbers they will be worse than the Albanians...

I think the 1980s Albanians who migrated to Greece are in essence are lot worse people than the garden variety skop of 2020 ....
and some have anecdotally assimilated okish......in certain areas..... (I say they were worse because a substantial number were convicted criminals and petty con men....the average skop is not really like that.....)
The Albanians in fyrom....are essentially indigenous to the land...not exactly modern day immigrants.... so the Albanians of fyrom and the Albanians of Greece are two different forms of ethnic groups.. one is an immigrant diaspora the other an ethnic minority ...
Also Muslims breed in greater numbers traditionally than Christians...

[Reaper]

Should be mentioned the biggest commie alpha revisionist Gruevski has left Skopia and lives in Hungary (very anti Greek and big backers of Fyrom from day 1) in exile. It is doubtful if he will ever return to Skopia:

https://eu-ocs.com/nikola-gruevski-s...ion-in-prison/

Tsipras will probably one day do the same.