Corona Virus

[Reaper]

People starting to finally realise the WHO owned by China and has been for years. Stunning article.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...t-coronavirus/

[Reaper]

Ok I will not quote prior comments and respond to everything so sorry if I miss a few points.

1. On criticism of Trump and China: I think it is stupid to call COVID-19 the "China virus" or "kung flu." I also think China should be held strongly accountable due to any wrongdoing and covering up they have done.Their wet markets should close. Trump has fucked up his response to COVID-19, from lack of testing to inappropriate allocation/availability of resources. None of those statements are contradictory.

On paper they are not contradictory. In reality, they are. The WHO has already absolved China of blame. Likewise the left's massive machinery is working hard towards the same end as documented in detail on this thread. It will take a Herculean effort to pin this on China in the current climate. Therefore the very fact you have a problem with the term 'China virus' - on any level at all given the facts - shows that on this point - conscious or not - you are batting for China. Sadly on this particular issue, seeking a middle ground of any description helps China.

As for Trump's response - a seperate issue - every single problem he has encountered - has been encountered by the majority of developed nations - including Germany - who have once again fudged their numbers. Where Trump has shone is in closing the borders early and that probably saved a huge amount of lives. Have a watch of what he was up against:

[tantra]

I'm really glad you guys are all alive. Be safe, be well in these trying times.

[Filikieteria1821]

Same to you and your family Tantra!

[tantra]

I think production will eventually be pulled out of China due to AI and automation. Even in China this is happening. It's the dawn of a new economic revolution. Obviously that memo has yet to reach AOC's desk. Classicism? Reparations for slavery? She's too busy bringing up issues relevant in the 1860s. That's progressivism for you.

The coronavirus spells worrying signs ahead for the EU too: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...on/ar-BB125QZz

I remember having this AI / Automation discussion with you. Could not agree more. I'm glad you are well.

[Don Giovanni]

Ok I will not quote prior comments and respond to everything so sorry if I miss a few points.

1. On criticism of Trump and China: I think it is stupid to call COVID-19 the "China virus" or "kung flu." I also think China should be held strongly accountable due to any wrongdoing and covering up they have done.Their wet markets should close. Trump has fucked up his response to COVID-19, from lack of testing to inappropriate allocation/availability of resources. None of those statements are contradictory.

The whole point of calling it the China virus was to point out it originated in China after they claimed it was an American virus. As for Trump's response, yes he made mistakes, but I don't think the US response has been the total disaster you would have everyone believe. The fact remains that the US has tested more people than anywhere else. And as you have conceded, he was right to suspend flights from China, even as the media and his opponents decried him as a racist for doing so.

2. On hydroxychloroquine/azithro in treating COVID-19: I commented earlier that we should be cautious about this treatment being a guaranteed cure. More data is being published, at times showing little to no efficacy for these drugs. For example: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...858?via%3Dihub. I was right in urging caution and will continue to do so. Fauci, one of the world's foremost experts on infectious diseases, agrees with this opinion.

No one said it's a guaranteed cure or that it might not have side effects, but it appears to be the best solution available. I'll ask of you again, if you or a family member had coronavirus and needed to seek treatment, you wouldn't want a treatment along those lines?

And Fauci isn't without his faults. He's deliberately scaring people and speaking against a 70-year-old drug because he wants funding for a billion dollar vaccine that might not get manufactured in the end. Fauci isn't a saint. His word is not gospel. He's a human with faults regardless of his foremost expertise.

3. On vaccine safety: I will mostly stick with just discussing the HPV vaccine. You can read here the # of HPV vaccines given in the USA as well as total deaths or significant adverse events (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/va...fety-faqs.html) The rate of cervical, anal, penile and ENT cancers caused by HPV are orders of magnitude greater.

The data is beyond clear. You can google it yourself. Vaccine administration prevents infections/cancer at number that dwarves reported significant adverse events. Any rebuttal to this statement is not scientific nor based in reality.

(emphasis mine)

How can you say that? Before you even hear a rebuttal, you claim to discount it. Well I recommend you read this: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/n...bout-gardasil/

Death risk from this [HPV] vaccine according to Merck’s own studies is 37 times the risk of dying from cervical cancer.

You need double check your data before you come posting on these forums talking like you're God and thy commandments are to vaccinate against HPV.

Again, I will reiterate. "My body, my choice" is not relevant for infectious diseases. They are transmissible and thus not vaccinating your own child may very well lead to an infection in your neighbor's immunocompromised child. Not to mention, these diseases will cause both a morbidity and mortality in the general public that would be more widespread and severe compared to vaccine side-effects.

What you do propose to do to make people take vaccines genius? If you think denying their kids the right to attend public school is the solution, you really don't get these people. Most home school to begin, which makes sense given their distrust of authority. What do you do then? Take their kids away? Kidnapping? Or do you dress up in a brown shirt, do your seig heil, and force little kids and their families against their wills to vaccinate?

It makes more sense and it's more practical to encourage people to take vaccines by having doctors provide them with the proper information rather than to force them to take vaccines. And I think the above case regarding the HPV vaccine is a clear example as to why people should really make informed choices rather than be subjected to government mandate, just like the then-governor of Texas, Republican Rick Perry, discovered.

Courtesy of Jeff Bezo's blog: Rick Perry reverses himself, calls HPV vaccine mandate a ‘mistake’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...zJJ_story.html

It soon emerged that Perry was close to one of the lobbyists who was pushing for the order and who worked for the vaccine’s New Jersey-based manufacturer. That lobbyist, Mike Toomey, had served as Perry’s chief of staff and has since helped found a super PAC aimed at boosting Perry’s bid for the presidency.

[Don Giovanni]

I remember having this AI / Automation discussion with you. Could not agree more. I'm glad you are well.

I'm wishing you and yours well-being and better times ahead.

At that time you mentioned the economy was due for a correction (this was still early in Trump's presidency). I figured much the same as you did then, but the correction didn't come until now. It was due. Trump really did his best to improve the economy, but mostly in a way that served as a further veneer. Now all those gains are just about gone. This coronavirus threatens to make it even worse.

I think we're all but out of tools to address any serious shocks to the economic system because they never took proper care to make the changes that would have made the economy more robust in the face of a new financial/economic crisis. If the US government had done more to reduce debt and to strengthen in areas where they lost ground to China, they wouldn't have to entertain negative interests rates and bail-ins as what may soon become their remaining options. The inflation we will soon have to live with won't be any better either.

Bon courage et bonne sante

[tantra]

i think he called it the Chiiinah!!! virus.

he has since changed his tune & tone.


tbh ... he's doing better than i ever thought he was capable of.

no matter what happens, this is an unexpected game changer. i expect major volatility and shifts in $$$$ & industry.

my whole point back then is to look at the forest, not the trees. china is a necessary evil. the american economy depends on china as they depend on us.

it is exactly times like these that the weight of leadership qualities, exponentially define the outcome . let's see what happens.

[Reaper]

China floods Facebook with undeclared coronavirus propaganda ads blaming Trump

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...us-propaganda/



China's toxic lackey: Once a Mugabe apologist, the head of the WHO stands accused of putting lives at risk by parroting China's lies and failing to expose it's cover-ups

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ives-risk.html

[Reaper]

China promotes bear bile as coronavirus treatment, alarming wildlife advocates


China’s National Health Commission published a list of recommended treatments, including injections that contain bear bile powder.




https://www.nationalgeographic.com/a...d19-treatment/

[Don Giovanni]

I do question whether this disease originated in a lab. It's very possible it originated in those disgusting wet markets, but I can't discount the possibility it was either isolated or originated in a lab and somehow got out.

We don't know what goes in these labs. China is trying to race ahead of everyone and they are using unethical and improper practices to get ahead.

When China said there were no cases of human-to-human transmission, I have a feeling that was because the people at the lab told them that. Because if you pay attention, the doctors told the authorities it was human-to-human and they were silenced.

And this would mean that China is engaged in a kind of cover-up. This could well be their Chernobyl, maybe even worse and incomparable.

And we're still not sure what kind of animal it came from. They think it passed through a bat, then a snake, and then it jumped to a human, etc. I think they're working on chimeras. It probably originated with something that was part bat, maybe part snake, and maybe even a little human or something very close to human (like chimps). That's how it may have made the jump to humans.

Remember, China was the first country to gene edit a baby:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50944461

They jailed him for three years, but I think China does this in secret and they do it with animals. And that much at least is not a conspiracy theory:

https://www.newscientist.com/article...born-in-china/

Pig-primate chimeras have been born live for the first time but died within a week. The two piglets, created by a team in China, looked normal although a small proportion of their cells were derived from cynomolgus monkeys.

“This is the first report of full-term pig-monkey chimeras,” says Tang Hai at the State Key Laboratory of Stem Cell and Reproductive Biology in Beijing.

This also goes in the US:

In 2017, Juan Carlos Izpisua Belmonte’s team at the Salk Institute in California created pig-human chimeras, but only around one in 100,000 cells were human and, for ethical reasons, the embryos were only allowed to develop for a month. The concern is that a chimera’s brain could be partly human.

(emphasis mine)

In the coming months we'll be asking what's going in these labs. I really doubt the labs in China are properly run or perform to the ethical standards demanded of them as would be in the Western world.

According to a July report in the Spanish newspaper El País, Belmonte’s team has now created human-monkey chimeras, in work carried out in China. The results have not yet been published.

We're talking about a country that a for a long time was said to be harvesting human organs from prisoners, namely the Falun Gong practitioners who lived very clean lifestyles (which is why they're organs were sought after). They are not a country that cares much for ethical standards.

I wouldn't put it past this possibility.

I understand if the WHO wants to take positions consistent with international law and UN, and obviously they don't want to estrange China so they're really bending over backwards to keep them happy, but at certain point these organizations are going to lose credibility if they keep going to bat for China like this.

Pelosi wants to investigate Trump's response to this outbreak, just another slimy effort to impede him and make his presidency hell. We should be investigating China!

[Reaper]

Johnson not doing well.. now in intensive care.

[tantra]

maybe boris will rise from the dead .... like lazarus

[Don Giovanni]

FYI just as I have posted above, we're going to hear more and more reports that this emerged out of a Chinese lab, like this one published today by Zerohedge. The author is a retired US army colonel who did work for the US Army's infectious disease research institute. It's very possible this virus emerged from some sort of chimera and that the virus accidentally got out from a Chinese lab:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...comment_stream

It is important to note that deadly viruses have previously "leaked" out of Chinese virology labs in two separate incidents.

A 2004 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS-CoV) in China involved two researchers who were working with the virus in a Beijing research lab, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on April 26, 2004 and confirmed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control.

“We suspect two people, a 26-year-old female postgraduate student and a 31-year-old male postdoc, were both infected, apparently in two separate incidents,” said Bob Dietz, WHO spokesman in Beijing at the time.

Synthetic biology, that is, the engineering of biology to create biologically-based systems that do not exist in nature is now widely used in laboratories worldwide. It has a number of benefits including as a rapid response platform to provide treatments for emerging diseases.

If unregulated, however, such bioengineering can produce combined or “chimeric” novel human pathogenic microorganisms capable of circumventing therapeutics or vaccines and, if released in nature, could have dramatic and permanent effects on disease transmission among species via natural-occurring mutations of the new viral entity.

The technology to create a coronavirus chimera has been demonstrated.

In a 2015 collaborative study between the Wuhan Institute of Virology and American scientists, funded by the National Institutes of Health, properties of two different viruses, the SHC014-CoV coronavirus and a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV, the coronavirus responsible for the 2002 pandemic, were combined as a chimera. It produced a new viral entity, SHC014-MA15, which, according to the authors, "Despite predictions from both structure-based modeling and pseudotyping experiments" unexpectedly "was viable and replicated to high titers" [a lot] in cell culture (Vero cells) and was capable of infecting human airway epithelial (HAE) cultures [human lung surface cells] and "showed robust replication" comparable to the "epidemic SARS-CoV Urbani strain."

That is, with the appropriate starting coronavirus strains, it is theoretically possible to manufacture a CoVid-19-like chimera.

Given the illness, death and economic destruction caused by CoVid-19, it is the responsibility of the Chinese government to fully open its research files and databases to international inspection, including information about the hundreds of coronavirus isolates, in order to ascertain the true origin of the Chinese CoVid-19 coronavirus.

[Reaper]

Direct hit for the West against China-centric WHO thanks to Trump:


Trump threatens World Health Organization funding

The president also blasted the U.N. agency’s early recommendations for countering the coronavirus.

“The W.H.O. really blew it. For some reason, funded largely by the United States, yet very China centric. We will be giving that a good look,” Trump wrote on Twitter.


“Fortunately I rejected their advice on keeping our borders open to China early on,” he added. “Why did they give us such a faulty recommendation?”



https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...funding-171859

[Reaper]

Rename WHO as Chinese Health Organization: Japan slams UN body for ‘giving into China’s spin’

Japan's Deputy PM Taro Aso slams WHO head Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus for his 'inadequate evaluation to address the coronavirus outbreak'.

https://theprint.in/world/rename-who...as-spin/393961

[Don Giovanni]

That should be no surprise:






The Soviet state emblem (a coat of arms) seems to bear a striking resemblance to the UN flag (a flag meant to depict peace). Officially, there's no link drawn between the two emblems, as if to suggest the UN flag was designed independently of any influence from the Soviet emblem. I find that to be remarkable coincidence and a hardly believable one at that.

The CIA's precursor, the OSS, in fact came up with it: https://www.cia.gov/news-information...e-un-logo.html. That's another little fact the UN doesn't like to highlight.

This flag came into being right after WWII (1946). This was when the Soviets were still held in better esteem by those in the West (a time when FDR endearingly refereed to Stalin as Uncle Joe).